Page 1 of 2 [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

caThar4G
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Dec 2016
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,141
Location: MN

10 Mar 2019, 12:29 pm

I told my ex recently I'm thinking about getting support because of daycare and other.
The other being the way he's not communicating in a good way.
One day, he blocked me on his phone.
A week later after my mother and I tried to get a hold of him, he emailed me and confined me to just emailing him.
We had agreed that he'd send me 400 a month till I got more established, and he has (except that weekend he wasn't going to). After that stunt, and him just choosing not to email me back recently, I told him about the support.
He's not going to get custody and would very likely just get supervised visitation.
He hasn't even seen his child. (He's 2 months old.)
Plus, if I did Families First, I heard I'd get money for daycare.
He called, left a voicemail, and said he has unblocked me and let's work something out. I called in the evening. He'd called twice earlier in the day.
I was still blocked.
I sent him another email that said I'm not playing any games, and as soon as possible I'd start the process and told him why (him not treating us like worthy people, and the fact I need the child care).

This is kind of a rant. But, let me know what you think if you want.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,716
Location: Stendec

10 Mar 2019, 1:11 pm

It’s lawyer time!



BeaArthur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 4,922

14 Mar 2019, 8:01 pm

Yeah, what Fnord said. And you seem to want him to treat you well and communicate responsively... stop thinking like that. You proposed an adversarial position - he needs to start giving you more money - how the hell is he supposed to feel about it? Happy? More money for a baby he has never seen?

Leave it to lawyers and the courts, and stop wanting this person to satisfy your emotional needs. Find another way to satisfy your needs. You can't have both.


_________________
Gone.


blazingstar
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2017
Age: 65
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,460

14 Mar 2019, 8:11 pm

What Fnord and Bea said. Good luck.


_________________
Eyes that watch the morning star
usually shine brighter,
Arms held out to dark they say,
usually hold tighter.


Threnody, Dorothy Parker
as modified by David Tamulovich


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,716
Location: Stendec

15 Mar 2019, 2:08 pm

You are divorced because you wanted to look out for yourself and your offspring.

So why are you concerned about your ex?

Hire a lawyer. Tell that lawyer to squeeze your ex for every dollar he legally owes you.

This is war!



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,056

15 Mar 2019, 2:20 pm

I've given you advice many times about this.

Your lawyer will cost more than what you'll ever be awarded. Even with a court order, he doesn't have to pay. He can default. He can quit his job to keep from being garnished. He might end up in jail but it doesn't mean you'll get the money.

Family Law drags on forever to keep bleeding the victims with false hope.

It's a very sad situation.

I hope it works out for you.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,716
Location: Stendec

15 Mar 2019, 2:22 pm

Strange … my ex got more out of me in the first six months than she ever owed her lawyer.

The best lawyers work for their clients. The shysters drag the cases out.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,056

15 Mar 2019, 2:23 pm

Fnord wrote:
Strange … my ex got more out of me in the first six months than she ever owed her lawyer.

The best lawyers work for their clients. The shysters drag the cases out.


Was that child support or divorce and alimony?

Also, the cases have to drag out if the other party isn't paying or if they breach the order. There's no alternative.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,716
Location: Stendec

15 Mar 2019, 2:27 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Strange … my ex got more out of me in the first six months than she ever owed her lawyer. The best lawyers work for their clients. The shysters drag the cases out.
Was that child support or divorce and alimony? Child support. She got the house and car in lieu of spousal support. Also, the cases have to drag out if the other party isn't paying or if they breach the order. There's no alternative.
In that case, it's not the lawyer's fault.

Maybe a few weeks in jail will convince the ex that he needs to man up.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,056

15 Mar 2019, 2:42 pm

Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Strange … my ex got more out of me in the first six months than she ever owed her lawyer. The best lawyers work for their clients. The shysters drag the cases out.
Was that child support or divorce and alimony? Child support. She got the house and car in lieu of spousal support. Also, the cases have to drag out if the other party isn't paying or if they breach the order. There's no alternative.
In that case, it's not the lawyer's fault.

Maybe a few weeks in jail will convince the ex that he needs to man up.


I didn't say that it would be the lawyer's fault, or that lawyers are to blame. It's the nature of the beast. Child support goes on for 20 years or longer if the child goes to post-secondary education or has disabilities. It's not a one-shot deal. The costs of raising a child vary and change from year to year because of child-care expenses and extraordinary expenses (glasses, braces, tutors, medical needs, tuition, etc), on top of your basic monthly provisions such as food, shelter, clothing. As they age they will also have mobile phones, driving insurance, etc. There is no static cost and no one can predict a child's future cost when they are a baby.

The amount you are entitled to receive also changes year to year because it is based on the payor's income from the previous year. This can only be determined if the payor complies by submitting their tax papers. Like I said, they will often quit their job or work under the table to demonstrate a lack of ability to pay. If CaThar demonstrates she has difficulty maintaining employment or that she has disabilities and needs special help with finances, the other party can use this against her and try to take the child.

Payment of child support is never a "done deal" like it might be with a divorce or division of assets. Every time an adjustment needs to be made or a new expense needs to be considered, it costs more money in legal fees because the entire Order will need to be rewritten.

Even if the parties settle on one flat price and agree to never change it, the person can default as I described. Then, lawyers are needed again. It's a revolving door of legal fees. Most payors start using visitation rights as currency, and putting the child in the middle by wanting to see them more (to pay less) or see them less (to claim that there is no relationship).

This makes it even more damaging to the family.

All in all, it's a very terrible situation for everyone involved. Unless the guy is a millionaire and he's willing to give her a lump sum all at once, I'd be extraordinarily sceptical about involving the court.



blackicmenace
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,583
Location: Sagittarius A

15 Mar 2019, 2:45 pm

Be sure to keep a record of your communication with him and always be civil. Don't let your emotions get the best of you.


_________________
Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.” ― Bertrand Russell


IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,056

15 Mar 2019, 3:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
Maybe a few weeks in jail will convince the ex that he needs to man up.


In theory, sure.

Don't forget when payors are in jail they aren't working. When they are in jail they can't be garnished by their employer and they can't see the child or help with child raising. When they're released from jail they can / will claim they were denied the right to earn an income. If they've lost sufficient income they can seek protection from the court such that their child support obligation will be lowered or forgiven for that span of time, or for a period of time into the future while they reestablish themselves. If they lose their job because of incarceration they can report a 0 income to the court. I'm not sure how this helps. Jail may seem like a worthy deterrent but if the payor truly can't afford to make payments, how can they?

CaThar's baby's father has already demonstrated very clearly he can't be trusted. He doesn't keep his word and he is already playing games by blocking communication and being a dick. This is likely illustrative of how he will always be, whether an Order is in place or not. It's not uncommon for payors to just vanish or be in default of their orders, but those orders still cost thousands of dollars for impoverished and desperate single parents.

The payor will also need to maintain a home so that they can see the child, which might be up to 49% of the time. Courts are particularly eager to give parents near equal visitation these days, or very close to it. The history of the payor's relationship with the child doesn't matter so long as there is no documented physical abuse.

The court will ensure that the payor keeps enough personal income to provide a suitable residence and be able to participate in visitation by feeding the baby and taking care of him during access times. Again, unless the parent has been physically violent against the child, it's unlikely they will have "supervised" access. They will see the child overnight and they will need to have enough income to pay support but also provide for the child in their own home. Access rights will be court ordered and legally, CaThar will need to hand her child over to that person on scheduled days even if she's afraid that he won't come back. Likewise, the guy may be expected to care for the child and not show up, even if CaThar has made plans and expects to have this period of relief.

I hate to be doom and gloom, but I don't want anyone telling CaThar that a court of law will solve all of her problems. It's a very complicated issue and she needs to be careful. Lawyers will promise the moon, and that's why so many single parents develop false hope and empty pockets.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,716
Location: Stendec

15 Mar 2019, 3:26 pm

I'm only speaking from personal experience, so other people's results may vary.

Going through the courts is a far better guaranty than relying on the promises of an ex -- and that works from both directions.

As long as the courts are that "invisible 800-pound gorilla in the room", both parties in a divorce will be more inclined to grit their teeth and at least act in a civil manner, and maybe even pre-emptively act before the court has to step in and tell them to.

Is he missing payments? A letter from the court ordering him to catch up carries a lot more weight than a whiny voice-mail message from her.

Is she withholding visitation unless he agrees to pay more? A letter from the court telling her that that's a no-no carries a lot more weight than pounding on her door and demanding your visitation rights.

But hey, if they want to make nice, then who am I to give advice?



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,056

15 Mar 2019, 3:58 pm

They were never married. To the best of my knowledge, they never lived together at all. He has gone so far as to deny paternity. That's a fine line because if she establishes the father's paternity he can sue for custody to avoid child support. Likewise, if she doesn't establish custody he has no impetus to pay. He's a truck driver and he's been evasive all along about his responsibilities. When the child was born he essentially told her he was going to cut and run, apart from promising $100 per week for her hydro bill.

I agree that court should be able to civilise the matter. I only caution because the costs can be exorbitant over the years, as I've described. Because it isn't a divorce, the court will only look at two issues: 1) Support and 2) Access. She will need to give him access to the child. 0% is not an option. He can easily claim she is unfit to care for the child because of her financial position, her mental health challenges and her disability. His lawyer will undoubtedly petition for custody of the child (to save money, or in the child's best interest). If the father isn't able to provide a home, CaThar could be pressured to surrender custody of her son to the state.

Because the situation is so complicated, she will need an experienced ($) lawyer. She will also need help with executive function to understand the legal complexities and to make decisions at each step of the game.

Obviously, it's up to CaThar what to do. I don't envy her position. If she can't move back with her parents I've suggested that she find another single mother and pool their resources to live as a two-parent unit and raise their children together. It's not ideal, but it would give her some relief from full-time parenting and from paying the bills alone. Her son would also have a playmate.

Hugs to CaThar. Please let us know how this unfolds. I sincerely hope I'm not a downer, but I care very much about your best interest and that of your little boy.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,716
Location: Stendec

15 Mar 2019, 4:04 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
They were never married. To the best of my knowledge, they never lived together at all. He has gone so far as to deny paternity. That's a fine line because if she establishes the father's paternity he can sue for custody to avoid child support. Likewise, if she doesn't establish custody he has no impetus to pay. He's a truck driver and he's been evasive all along about his responsibilities. When the child was born he essentially told her he was going to cut and run, apart from promising $100 per week for her hydro bill...
Well, that changes everything. Unless his name is on the birth certificate, he's off scott-free.
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Hugs to CaThar. Please let us know how this unfolds. I sincerely hope I'm not a downer, but I care very much about your best interest and that of your little boy.
<* Heavy Sigh *> I hope it works out too. :(