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RightGalaxy
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10 Mar 2019, 9:02 pm

Did anyone ever have to have a doctor find another disorder with your child who has ADHD for them to qualify for services?



magz
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11 Mar 2019, 2:28 am

What services are needed for ADHD?
My doc says ADHD is not a disorder, just a temperament, so I suppose he wouldn't recommend any services.


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Joe90
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11 Mar 2019, 11:29 am

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is not a disorder? :?


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magz
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11 Mar 2019, 12:25 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is not a disorder? :?

Actually he claims ADHD does not exist. Yes, some people are very active and have poor attention but he says seeing it as a disorder is wrong. AFAIK, even the man who invented the term tried to back off from the idea...

Anyway, whay services would you expect for ADHD?


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Joe90
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11 Mar 2019, 2:24 pm

magz wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is not a disorder? :?

Actually he claims ADHD does not exist. Yes, some people are very active and have poor attention but he says seeing it as a disorder is wrong. AFAIK, even the man who invented the term tried to back off from the idea...

Anyway, whay services would you expect for ADHD?


Believe me, it is a disorder. My friend's 7-year-old grandson has been diagnosed with ADHD. He is not "just an active kid with small attention span". There's more to it than that. He has behaviour difficulties at home, that has nothing to do with his upbringing, because his brothers are fine. He has a family support worker visit to help his parents cope with his hyperactivity, behaviour and temper tantrums, and he gets support with his work in school. He often gets excluded from friends at school because he doesn't always pay attention to essential social cues, and struggles to co-operate in team games like football even though he loves football.

That seems like a disorder to me, not just a spoilt or hyperactive child.
I'm not sure what services are best for adults with ADHD. But with people carrying on with the "ADHD doesn't exist" attitude, then there won't be services for it any time soon.


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magz
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12 Mar 2019, 4:13 am

I just repeat my doc's opinion. He is a supporter of social model of ADHD troubles. I don't have strong opinion myself. I know one case of extreme ADHD adult, who needed to go away when attending a funeral because he had to jump to release his emotion... Is he disabled? Or maybe all he needs is a society that accepts his ways? I don't know.
The tips I found for parenting kids with ADHD are useful for any child, they are all about acceptance and boundaries. You don't need a diagnosis to make a healthy environment for your kid.
I'm strongly against medicating children to regulate their behaviors - that's the only strong opinion I have on the issue.


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timf
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15 Mar 2019, 8:19 am

What is called ADHD may prove to be a similar neurological variant similar to and perhaps overlapping with Aspergers. It is unknown what this “disorder” actually is.

Here is a quote from the ebook “Aspergers - An Intentional Life” that provides an alternative view of ADHD


There are some physiological conditions that result in behavior problems such as with some tumors or brain injury or malformation such as with severe autism. However, these are not very common and are usually so profound as to distinctly herald a causative pathology. However, recently the range of what is considered “normal” has been narrowed. There was a time prior to mandatory public education when a diversity of behavior was more widely accepted. Being a character, unique, or different was not the anathema it is today.

By way of background, we can examine what came to be called ADHD. Henry Ford perhaps best demonstrated the efficiency of mass production. This was greatly expanded during world war II. So many people had come to accept the mass production of war material such as tanks and planes and the mass processing of soldiers and sailors that the continuing mass processing of children in school was never questioned. However after the war the intensification of the mass processing began to reveal problems. Not every child could pass through the system without difficulty. However, no one seemed to question the assumption that uniform conveyor-like processing was suitable for all children.

Charitable organizations like the Easter Seal society had grown during the early 20th century into massive financial fund raising machines. They funneled many of their donations into medical research to find cures for various childhood diseases. The vaccine for polio was greatly aided through their funding. In 1963 the Easter seal society held a meeting with the National Institute of Neurological Diseases and Blindness Public Health Service that resulted in a paper published in 1966, DHEW publication (NIH 76349). This document was written by Sam D. Clemets an associate professor in the University of Arkansas Medical School. The paper was titled “Minimal Brain Dysfunction in Children”. This was the result of “task force one“ which was supposed to provide a definitional emphasis from a medical perspective. This report acknowledges that there is no physiological causative condition. However, as can be seen from the paper title, there was every expectation of medical technology finding one eventually.

Essentially, the assumption was that difficulty in being processed in the school machine was indicative of some defect or pathology (as yet unknown) in the child that required intervention and correction.

Task force two was supposed to recommend educational solutions but then also redefined the definitions of the first task force such that by 1972 the following criteria was widely accepted;

(a) hyperactivity-constant, involuntary elevation of general activity level;
(b) attention-concentration deficits-inability to persist in an activity for long periods of time;
(c) impulsivity-inadequate inhibition or mediation of behavior by the higher thought processes;
(d) disobedience-difficulty reported by parents or other authority figures in controlling the child's
conduct by routine disciplinary methods;
(e) reduced capacity for delaying gratification;
(f) academic achievement below the child's measured intellectual ability;
(g) generalized unhappiness and lack of selfesteem;
(h) presence of troublesome behavior patterns, such as temper tantrums, destructiveness, and
school truancy;
(i) so-called "soft" neurological signs, including clumsiness, poor balance, impaired fine motor coordination, and deficient visual-motor organization; perceptual and cognitive dysfunctions, such as visual and auditory discrimination problems and reduced capacity for abstract concept formation.

It is not difficult to see that rather than a pervasive medical condition, like polio, seeking a solution like a vaccine, what is represented is the discontent of teachers (and by them of parents) requesting aid in processing difficult components through their educational machine. It is strange that everyone assumed that children were “defective” rather than the idea of uniform bulk processing of children was not ideal.

The discovery of a “cure” lay in the availability of amphetamines which were discovered just before WWII and used by both sides. After the war many people used the drug both legally and illegally to boost work performance.

The medical “treatment” of ADHA

To use an illustration: If an employer declared that shoveling 3 tons of bulk material each day was the minimum acceptable job performance and everyone was required to meet this standard, it might be expected that women, children, the aged, and the infirm might fail to meet this standard. They might even be declared “shovel disabled”. However, if a medical doctor gave them a prescription for amphetamines, they might be able to meet the standard. It would thus appear that support for the validity of the diagnosis of “shovel disability” had been found.

It is sad that the practice of giving amphetamines to children grew to such widespread proportions bolstered by the apparent “success” of behavior that was made more compliant. Rather than assuming that this drug “fixed” some as yet indiscernible medical condition, a more likely thesis might be that the drug accelerated physiological function that resulted is less dissonance with neurological function. However, no one was really interested in the real explanation as long as there was a mechanism for making children more compliant. This “cure” seemed to substantiate the view that an unknown physical defect was fixed with medication.

In a way, a big enough hammer can force a square peg into a round hole, but only at the expense of breaking off the corners. Prior to the industrial revolution children were seen in a different light. Today they are often seen as organisms the burdensome custody of which is shared with schools, and various activity groups until they are able to move out on their own. Anything that can make their management easier can be seen as beneficial.


From Chapter 2 of Aspergers an Intentional Life - http://christianpioneer.com/blogarchiev ... e_2017.pdf

Additionally - Aspergers Parenting - http://christianpioneer.com/blogarchiev ... g%20v2.pdf

Those of us who were Asperger children and have raised Asperger children understand the difficulties and challenges they can represent.



RemiBeaker
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15 Mar 2019, 11:02 am

I read: "(e) reduced capacity for delaying gravitation".



DanielW
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15 Mar 2019, 11:06 am

RemiBeaker wrote:
I read: "(e) reduced capacity for delaying gravitation".


Oh No! I think I have a reduced capacity for delaying gravitation... where can I get that assessed? :-)



Benjamin the Donkey
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15 Mar 2019, 12:13 pm

My son is an exceptionally intelligent, great kid--but his severe ADHD is indeed a disability. He simply can't accomplish anything without medication--can't go to school, can't solve a math problem, can't play a game, can't even walk down the street. I had an uncle who was similar. He lived before effective treatment, and was unable to support himself or live independently his whole life. With medication, my son can do anything his "normal" peers do, and often better.

I agree that ADHD may often be over-diagnosed and medication may be over-prescribed, but for some kids it really is a necessity.


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Joe90
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15 Mar 2019, 1:21 pm

Apparently my mum's cousin has ADHD, but was never diagnosed. He had behavioural problems as a child and teenager, but his brother and sister were fine, so it wasn't due to bad parenting. He fell behind on his work all through school, and has never married or had any children because he finds relationships difficult to keep. He's in his 50s now and has never moved out of his parents home in his life. He's still very hyper, and has trouble with staying in jobs, due to losing interest quick and getting frustrated or anxious. His (now elderly) mum has always worried about him but she is rather old-fashioned and doesn't believe in diagnosises or meds, although I think it might help him if he got some support or took meds.


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Mukka
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20 Mar 2019, 2:43 am

Helps control emotional outbursts but not general anxiety.



DanielW
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20 Mar 2019, 3:11 pm

Mukka wrote:
Helps control emotional outbursts but not general anxiety.

???! !!??? what or who are you talking about?



Joe90
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20 Mar 2019, 4:54 pm

DanielW wrote:
Mukka wrote:
Helps control emotional outbursts but not general anxiety.

???! ! !??? what or who are you talking about?


My signature.


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DanielW
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20 Mar 2019, 4:58 pm

Joe90 wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Mukka wrote:
Helps control emotional outbursts but not general anxiety.

???! ! !??? what or who are you talking about?


My signature.


I knew that, I just couldn't figure out why or what the poster was trying to add to the thread...or if it a communication thing or some kind of bot...all this users posts seem to be the same type.