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Kraichgauer
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02 Apr 2019, 2:07 am

EzraS wrote:
Actually it was Obama who tried to do something based on personal reasons. Up until then it was pretty much the same system as usual we had throughout the Carter and Clinton administrations.


Universal healthcare has been a dream of liberals going back to FDR and Truman, but it was always thwarted by the right. Bill Clinton tried to achieve it, but it fell by the wayside when Republicans hardheartedly shot it down.. As flawed as Obama's plan was (which was dreamed up by the conservative Heritage Foundation), at least he took a first step.


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EzraS
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02 Apr 2019, 2:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Actually it was Obama who tried to do something based on personal reasons. Up until then it was pretty much the same system as usual we had throughout the Carter and Clinton administrations.


Universal healthcare has been a dream of liberals going back to FDR and Truman, but it was always thwarted by the right. Bill Clinton tried to achieve it, but it fell by the wayside when Republicans hardheartedly shot it down.. As flawed as Obama's plan was (which was dreamed up by the conservative Heritage Foundation), at least he took a first step.


Obama said, "Today I'm signing this reform bill into law on behalf of my mother", which is why I concluded he started it for personal reasons.

I'll have to look into it more overall. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't boil down to democrats = good and republicans = evil.

One thing with the obamacare issue that sticks out to me is it being mandatory. I have been under the impression that democrats are into control on a micromanagement type level. The other is all the extra money taken from people at tax time. Because it seems that the democrats are also into extracting as much money out of the public as possible. This is part of why I am skeptical of how altruistic they are supposed to be.



Kraichgauer
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02 Apr 2019, 3:17 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Actually it was Obama who tried to do something based on personal reasons. Up until then it was pretty much the same system as usual we had throughout the Carter and Clinton administrations.


Universal healthcare has been a dream of liberals going back to FDR and Truman, but it was always thwarted by the right. Bill Clinton tried to achieve it, but it fell by the wayside when Republicans hardheartedly shot it down.. As flawed as Obama's plan was (which was dreamed up by the conservative Heritage Foundation), at least he took a first step.


Obama said, "Today I'm signing this reform bill into law on behalf of my mother", which is why I concluded he started it for personal reasons.

I'll have to look into it more overall. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't boil down to democrats = good and republicans = evil.

One thing with the obamacare issue that sticks out to me is it being mandatory. I have been under the impression that democrats are into control on a micromanagement type level. The other is all the extra money taken from people at tax time. Because it seems that the democrats are also into extracting as much money out of the public as possible. This is part of why I am skeptical of how altruistic they are supposed to be.


Again, the ACA began life as a conservative plan. I believe the mandate was even a part of Romney Care in Massachusetts, so the Republicans are up to the same thing, it would seem. Or maybe in both cases, a mandate was the surest thing to make sure it was financed.


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EzraS
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02 Apr 2019, 5:47 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Actually it was Obama who tried to do something based on personal reasons. Up until then it was pretty much the same system as usual we had throughout the Carter and Clinton administrations.


Universal healthcare has been a dream of liberals going back to FDR and Truman, but it was always thwarted by the right. Bill Clinton tried to achieve it, but it fell by the wayside when Republicans hardheartedly shot it down.. As flawed as Obama's plan was (which was dreamed up by the conservative Heritage Foundation), at least he took a first step.


Obama said, "Today I'm signing this reform bill into law on behalf of my mother", which is why I concluded he started it for personal reasons.

I'll have to look into it more overall. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't boil down to democrats = good and republicans = evil.

One thing with the obamacare issue that sticks out to me is it being mandatory. I have been under the impression that democrats are into control on a micromanagement type level. The other is all the extra money taken from people at tax time. Because it seems that the democrats are also into extracting as much money out of the public as possible. This is part of why I am skeptical of how altruistic they are supposed to be.


Again, the ACA began life as a conservative plan. I believe the mandate was even a part of Romney Care in Massachusetts, so the Republicans are up to the same thing, it would seem. Or maybe in both cases, a mandate was the surest thing to make sure it was financed.


Yep. 2006. I'm confused now because you have been saying the conservatives/republicans have never do anything towards healthcare and now it turns out they were the ones who started the thing.

Which sounded like a good idea initially, since people were supposed to be able to keep the plan they already had. And my aunt said her company was able to keep it going for a couple of years after, but were then forced to offer plan that was astronomically more expensive.



Kraichgauer
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02 Apr 2019, 8:30 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Actually it was Obama who tried to do something based on personal reasons. Up until then it was pretty much the same system as usual we had throughout the Carter and Clinton administrations.


Universal healthcare has been a dream of liberals going back to FDR and Truman, but it was always thwarted by the right. Bill Clinton tried to achieve it, but it fell by the wayside when Republicans hardheartedly shot it down.. As flawed as Obama's plan was (which was dreamed up by the conservative Heritage Foundation), at least he took a first step.


Obama said, "Today I'm signing this reform bill into law on behalf of my mother", which is why I concluded he started it for personal reasons.

I'll have to look into it more overall. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't boil down to democrats = good and republicans = evil.

One thing with the obamacare issue that sticks out to me is it being mandatory. I have been under the impression that democrats are into control on a micromanagement type level. The other is all the extra money taken from people at tax time. Because it seems that the democrats are also into extracting as much money out of the public as possible. This is part of why I am skeptical of how altruistic they are supposed to be.


Again, the ACA began life as a conservative plan. I believe the mandate was even a part of Romney Care in Massachusetts, so the Republicans are up to the same thing, it would seem. Or maybe in both cases, a mandate was the surest thing to make sure it was financed.


Yep. 2006. I'm confused now because you have been saying the conservatives/republicans have never do anything towards healthcare and now it turns out they were the ones who started the thing.

Which sounded like a good idea initially, since people were supposed to be able to keep the plan they already had. And my aunt said her company was able to keep it going for a couple of years after, but were then forced to offer plan that was astronomically more expensive.


The thing created by the conservative think tank, The Heritage Foundation, which eventually became the ACA, was a conservative answer to what would have been Clintoncare had it not been ripped apart by Republicans and conservative Democrats. Once Bill Clinton's plan was dead and buried, no Republican saw fit to carry on any further fight for universal healthcare, as they didn't believe in granting health coverage to those who "hadn't earned it."
Mitt Romney, who was actually a moderate Republican, had instituted Romneycare in his state, but ended up turning against the whole plan for universal health coverage as the Republicans switched to becoming hard line conservatives, which ultimately lost them their second election to Barack Obama.


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05 Apr 2019, 3:03 am

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Kraichgauer
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05 Apr 2019, 11:46 am

Darmok wrote:
Image


Trump did more than just mildly deny guilt.


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VegetableMan
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05 Apr 2019, 12:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Actually it was Obama who tried to do something based on personal reasons. Up until then it was pretty much the same system as usual we had throughout the Carter and Clinton administrations.


Universal healthcare has been a dream of liberals going back to FDR and Truman, but it was always thwarted by the right. Bill Clinton tried to achieve it, but it fell by the wayside when Republicans hardheartedly shot it down.. As flawed as Obama's plan was (which was dreamed up by the conservative Heritage Foundation), at least he took a first step.


Let's not forget Teddy Roosevelt.


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Kraichgauer
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05 Apr 2019, 5:09 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Actually it was Obama who tried to do something based on personal reasons. Up until then it was pretty much the same system as usual we had throughout the Carter and Clinton administrations.


Universal healthcare has been a dream of liberals going back to FDR and Truman, but it was always thwarted by the right. Bill Clinton tried to achieve it, but it fell by the wayside when Republicans hardheartedly shot it down.. As flawed as Obama's plan was (which was dreamed up by the conservative Heritage Foundation), at least he took a first step.


Let's not forget Teddy Roosevelt.


Quite true. TR was a Republican, and a liberal progressive if there ever was one.


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