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thinkinginpictures
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06 Apr 2019, 10:44 am

I've read in the Danish news that Swedish Nazis are very popular these days.

Why does Sweden support the nazi movements? Why do the Swedish people allow Evil?



Wolfram87
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06 Apr 2019, 11:51 am

The Sweden Democrats: previously Ethno-Nationalists now terming themselves Cultural Nationalists (they had a falling out with their own youth organisation, who continue calling themselves Ethno-Nationalists). They have had a big surge in popularity, rapidly becoming the third largest party over the course of a few years mostly owing to the ineptitude of the established parties rather than to any measurable degree of competence on their own part. They're pretty much a party of discontent; voting for them (or saying that you're going to in the polls) is a middle-finger to the established parties refusal to acknowledge that while the solutions that SD themselves propose are ineffective at best and outright absurd at worst, the issues that they raise about immigration (and the EU) are valid concerns that need to be adressed. If someone has a problem with the EU, the only options are the farthest right or the farthest left, everyone inbetween is pro-EU. And no one wants to even acknowledge how badly they've screwed the pooch trying to handle immigration in the last decade or so, so the Nazis have a pretty solid stick to hit the establishment over the head with, and all they can do in return is sticking their head in the sand and call them names.

It's all very farcical, but I'm more annoyed with the established parties than I'm worred that I'll wake up one day and suddenly the Nazis are in charge.


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06 Apr 2019, 11:53 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
The Sweden Democrats: previously Ethno-Nationalists now terming themselves Cultural Nationalists (they had a falling out with their own youth organisation, who continue calling themselves Ethno-Nationalists). They have had a big surge in popularity, rapidly becoming the third largest party over the course of a few years mostly owing to the ineptitude of the established parties rather than to any measurable degree of competence on their own part. They're pretty much a party of discontent; voting for them (or saying that you're going to in the polls) is a middle-finger to the established parties refusal to acknowledge that while the solutions that SD themselves propose are ineffective at best and outright absurd at worst, the issues that they raise about immigration (and the EU) are valid concerns that need to be adressed. If someone has a problem with the EU, the only options are the farthest right or the farthest left, everyone inbetween is pro-EU. And no one wants to even acknowledge how badly they've screwed the pooch trying to handle immigration in the last decade or so, so the Nazis have a pretty solid stick to hit the establishment over the head with, and all they can do in return is sticking their head in the sand and call them names.

It's all very farcical, but I'm more annoyed with the established parties than I'm worred that I'll wake up one day and suddenly the Nazis are in charge.


Sounds like you really know what you're talking about. Do you usually keep a good track on what happens in politics?



thinkinginpictures
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06 Apr 2019, 11:54 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
The Sweden Democrats: previously Ethno-Nationalists now terming themselves Cultural Nationalists (they had a falling out with their own youth organisation, who continue calling themselves Ethno-Nationalists). They have had a big surge in popularity, rapidly becoming the third largest party over the course of a few years mostly owing to the ineptitude of the established parties rather than to any measurable degree of competence on their own part. They're pretty much a party of discontent; voting for them (or saying that you're going to in the polls) is a middle-finger to the established parties refusal to acknowledge that while the solutions that SD themselves propose are ineffective at best and outright absurd at worst, the issues that they raise about immigration (and the EU) are valid concerns that need to be adressed. If someone has a problem with the EU, the only options are the farthest right or the farthest left, everyone inbetween is pro-EU. And no one wants to even acknowledge how badly they've screwed the pooch trying to handle immigration in the last decade or so, so the nazis have a pretty solid stick to hit the establishment over the head with, and all they can do in return is either sticking their head in the sand and call them names.

It's all very farcical, but I'm more annoyed with the established parties than I'm worred that I'll wake up one day and suddenly the Nazis are in charge.


I'm not talking about the Sweden Democrats, but the actually self-proclaimed nazi movements.
They're becoming increasingly popular, despite the fact that their predecessors gassed millions of innocent people.

Anyone who supports self-proclaimed nazi movements, are guilty of supporting genocide.
You cannot be a nazi and be against genocide.



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06 Apr 2019, 11:56 am

In practice, everybody to the right of Bernie Sanders is a Nazi, according to the mainstream media. I guess it's the same in Sweden, and perhaps worse.



thinkinginpictures
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06 Apr 2019, 11:59 am

Prometheus18 wrote:
In practice, everybody to the right of Bernie Sanders is a Nazi, according to the mainstream media. I guess it's the same in Sweden, and perhaps worse.


No. I'm talking about real nazis, those who celebrate Hitler's birthday and walk around with a swastica, celebrate the nazi invasions of several countries (Poland, Denmark, Norway, France etc.) and support genocide.

Those movements are gaining support in all of Europe.



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06 Apr 2019, 12:12 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
In practice, everybody to the right of Bernie Sanders is a Nazi, according to the mainstream media. I guess it's the same in Sweden, and perhaps worse.


No. I'm talking about real nazis, those who celebrate Hitler's birthday and walk around with a swastica, celebrate the nazi invasions of several countries (Poland, Denmark, Norway, France etc.) and support genocide.

Those movements are gaining support in all of Europe.


I think one big reason could be ignorance, that they just don't really know what the nazis did and don't think of them as something so bad because of it. I don't know what and how much they teach about WWII in Sweden, but I recently read an article that said that many people in France don't even know what holocaust was, so would it be so suprising if that was also the case in Sweden? I mean when I was in school, I didn't really learn all that much about what the nazis did. I've learned a lot after that from books and documents because I was interested, but it'd be no suprise if someone without any interest on the matter wouldn't really know much.



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06 Apr 2019, 12:19 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
Sounds like you really know what you're talking about. Do you usually keep a good track on what happens in politics?


Thank you, I try. My city is very working-class, and it's split almost down the middle with one side supporting the Social Democrats as the typical working man's party and the other half being mostly young and dissaffected
people supporting SD.


thinkinginpictures wrote:
I'm not talking about the Sweden Democrats, but the actually self-proclaimed nazi movements.
They're becoming increasingly popular, despite the fact that their predecessors gassed millions of innocent people.

Anyone who supports self-proclaimed nazi movements, are guilty of supporting genocide.
You cannot be a nazi and be against genocide.


I don't think you need to worry: think about it. The fact that there are lots of small organisations suggests that they aren't in fact united behind a common cause, and as such wont be successful in politics. That they're gaining a larger following in aggregate is probably more symptom of the current political situation being s**t than an indication that any given group of Nazis are going to take over. I'd be more worried about southern Europe, where things really seem to be heating up.


Fireblossom wrote:
I think one big reason could be ignorance, that they just don't really know what the nazis did and don't think of them as something so bad because of it. I don't know what and how much they teach about WWII in Sweden, but I recently read an article that said that many people in France don't even know what holocaust was, so would it be so suprising if that was also the case in Sweden?


No, they absolutely know. I think it's more a case of the whole "Oh, you think the mainstream narrative is what really happened? You're so naive!"


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thinkinginpictures
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06 Apr 2019, 12:24 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
No, they absolutely know. I think it's more a case of the whole "Oh, you think the mainstream narrative is what really happened? You're so naive!"


That's why I suggest illegalizing holocaust-denial should be implemented in all of the European Union.



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06 Apr 2019, 12:28 pm

And that's where you swing and you miss. Not only will that make it more cool and rebellious to do so, but it will also alienate everyone who thinks freedom of thought and freedom of speech are important principles to adhere to, which is a substantially larger group than the actual Nazis. You don't stop Nazis by using 1984 as an instruction manual.


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thinkinginpictures
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06 Apr 2019, 12:56 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
And that's where you swing and you miss. Not only will that make it more cool and rebellious to do so, but it will also alienate everyone who thinks freedom of thought and freedom of speech are important principles to adhere to, which is a substantially larger group than the actual Nazis. You don't stop Nazis by using 1984 as an instruction manual.


Why freedom of speech?

Why not simply have a good life? Why is the liberty to say anything you want (which in reality is limited anyway - you can't say racist, pro-terrorist sympathies or share copyrighted stuff anyway), important?

If providing a good life for most people in a nation would require the ban of nazi sympathies, why is that wrong?



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06 Apr 2019, 1:08 pm

Because a) the goverment does not have mandate to vet thoughts or opinions for acceptability. It may punish me if I take an illegal action, but it may not punish me for having an illegal thought. And b) because in protecting their right to free speech I also protect my own right to listen. I have a right to hear what they have to say and accept or reject it on its merits, and I will not outsource this process to the government. That way lies tyranny.


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06 Apr 2019, 1:24 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
I've read in the Danish news that Swedish Nazis are very popular these days.

Why does Sweden support the nazi movements? Why do the Swedish people allow Evil?


I am going to have to assume most Swedish people don't support Nazis. Also we have nazis in the United States, so its certainly not a problem specific to sweden.


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06 Apr 2019, 1:28 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
In practice, everybody to the right of Bernie Sanders is a Nazi, according to the mainstream media. I guess it's the same in Sweden, and perhaps worse.


Care to site any sources, because I certainly have not heard of the main stream media referring to any and everyone right of Bernie Sanders as being nazis? So I'd be curious what media sources are doing this so I can do my part not to support those ones...since that would be just as bad of fake news as Fox spews out.


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06 Apr 2019, 1:30 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
In practice, everybody to the right of Bernie Sanders is a Nazi, according to the mainstream media. I guess it's the same in Sweden, and perhaps worse.


No. I'm talking about real nazis, those who celebrate Hitler's birthday and walk around with a swastica, celebrate the nazi invasions of several countries (Poland, Denmark, Norway, France etc.) and support genocide.

Those movements are gaining support in all of Europe.

Moreso than in the U.S.A?


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thinkinginpictures
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06 Apr 2019, 1:34 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Because a) the goverment does not have mandate to vet thoughts or opinions for acceptability. It may punish me if I take an illegal action, but it may not punish me for having an illegal thought. And b) because in protecting their right to free speech I also protect my own right to listen. I have a right to hear what they have to say and accept or reject it on its merits, and I will not outsource this process to the government. That way lies tyranny.


What about the Swedish anti-racist laws? Or anti-terrorist sympathy speeches which exists not only in Denmark, Sweden, Norway - but in all of Europe?

Does that make European countries tyrannical states?