Bernie Sanders: No White people are poor!

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cyberdad
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11 Apr 2019, 6:55 pm

sly279 wrote:
That’s bs and you know it. They were whipped, had their balls cut off, forced to fight and die so romans could watch..


Have you've been watching "Spartacus"? BTW African American slaves had their balls cut off as well....pretty much anything could be done to them as they were chattel...



kraftiekortie
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11 Apr 2019, 6:59 pm

I'm not a leftist. So don't call me that.

I believe people are discriminated against for many reasons: race, ethnic group, socioeconomic status. And I believe we should have the means to curtail this discrimination.

Slavery is slavery----no matter what.

I was a racist until I actually met "people of color."

Just because I believe people shouldn't be discriminated against doesn't make me a "leftist."

It was wrong to say that black people "benefited" from slavery because they were made "civilized" by the white folk. I reacted mostly to that.



sly279
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11 Apr 2019, 11:35 pm

..,



Last edited by sly279 on 12 Apr 2019, 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

sly279
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11 Apr 2019, 11:37 pm

cyberdad wrote:
sly279 wrote:
That’s bs and you know it. They were whipped, had their balls cut off, forced to fight and die so romans could watch..


Have you've been watching "Spartacus"? BTW African American slaves had their balls cut off as well....pretty much anything could be done to them as they were chattel...

Im not the one claiming one type of slavery is worse or that one type of slavery didn’t happen.

Is it really that hard to admit you were wrong?
Whites were slaves through out history.



cyberdad
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12 Apr 2019, 6:25 am

sly279 wrote:
Whites were slaves through out history.

I never disputed they were. But I still agree with Bernie...the black poverty experience is different



sly279
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12 Apr 2019, 1:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Now now, let's not choke on Bernie's minor faux pas

He of course mean't that white people haven't historically experienced generations of poverty like black Americans (I doubt any white person had to endure slavery or share cropping) but he probably should have chosen his words a little more carefully in the context of the times.

If anything this endears Bernie to my heart even more, after all, too err is to be human, and he's human like the rest of us (unlike the orange haired liar)


You’re words.



Wolfram87
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12 Apr 2019, 2:18 pm

I'd just like to add that the very word "slave" comes from the ethnic group "Slavs". What colour are they, you think?


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12 Apr 2019, 3:34 pm

What a dumbass thing to say.


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Crimadella
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12 Apr 2019, 5:22 pm

cyberdad wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Whites were slaves through out history.

I never disputed they were. But I still agree with Bernie...the black poverty experience is different


No, it isn't. In some cases bad poverty stricken neighborhoods riddled with crime contain multiple races. In these days, in most cases, they don't have it rough because they are black, they have it rough because of poverty mixed with bad culture, and the exact same issues exit within all races. The fact of the mater is, all you have to do is raise your children right, make sure they do good in school and they will be successful. That's proved to be true all the time, their are successful black people ya know? They all have one thing in common, they all work towards a better future. Griping about the past and not trying is the leading cause to lack of success, this is also true for all races. We have systematic equality in these days, anyone who is an over-achiever in school will be successful if they simply make the right choices, neither gender nor race holds you back. Doing nothing and griping about inequality is what holds people back, outside of handicaps anyway. If you never try, you can't really rightfully complain that the system is unfair. It is fair, millions of people from all races prove this is so all of the time.

If you look, you will actually hear successful blacks say the same thing.



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12 Apr 2019, 7:03 pm

Sanders is full of beans. I'm a very working class person.


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cyberdad
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12 Apr 2019, 7:11 pm

sly279 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Now now, let's not choke on Bernie's minor faux pas

He of course mean't that white people haven't historically experienced generations of poverty like black Americans (I doubt any white person had to endure slavery or share cropping) but he probably should have chosen his words a little more carefully in the context of the times.

If anything this endears Bernie to my heart even more, after all, too err is to be human, and he's human like the rest of us (unlike the orange haired liar)


You’re words.

In the modern era



cyberdad
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12 Apr 2019, 7:23 pm

Crimadella wrote:
The fact of the mater is, all you have to do is raise your children right, make sure they do good in school and they will be successful. Griping about the past and not trying is the leading cause to lack of success,


It's funny you should mention this as the primary reason for black poverty

the psychological impact of intergenerational prejudice and discrimination is very powerful. Bernie Sanders was referring to this as the factor that makes what blacks go through even more psychologically frustrating than whites living below the poverty line.
https://www.wired.com/2016/07/physical- ... rain-body/

This doesn't even deal with institutional racism which impacts poor blacks differently. t's like asking poor people to run a marathon but the blacks have to run an extra 10km than the poor whites.

The psychological impact of racism logically impacts most on the ability of men in the black community to lift themselves out of poverty when compared to poor white men.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/the- ... t-the-men/

I know all about this topic as I have written policy reports about reasons for aboriginal Australians poverty and health outcomes. The mechanism that leads to poor outcomes for aboriginal people (whether Australian or Native American) or African American is exactly the same.

To put a spin on Michael Moore's "awful truth" in this case It's very "sad truth". The victimisation complex starts from a young age and yes there are individuals who do lift themselves out with hard work, some government support and determination but they are still in the minority.



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12 Apr 2019, 7:52 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
The fact of the mater is, all you have to do is raise your children right, make sure they do good in school and they will be successful. Griping about the past and not trying is the leading cause to lack of success,


It's funny you should mention this as the primary reason for black poverty

the psychological impact of intergenerational prejudice and discrimination is very powerful. Bernie Sanders was referring to this as the factor that makes what blacks go through even more psychologically frustrating than whites living below the poverty line.
https://www.wired.com/2016/07/physical- ... rain-body/

This doesn't even deal with institutional racism which impacts poor blacks differently. t's like asking poor people to run a marathon but the blacks have to run an extra 10km than the poor whites.

The psychological impact of racism logically impacts most on the ability of men in the black community to lift themselves out of poverty when compared to poor white men.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/the- ... t-the-men/

I know all about this topic as I have written policy reports about reasons for aboriginal Australians poverty and health outcomes. The mechanism that leads to poor outcomes for aboriginal people (whether Australian or Native American) or African American is exactly the same.

To put a spin on Michael Moore's "awful truth" in this case It's very "sad truth". The victimisation complex starts from a young age and yes there are individuals who do lift themselves out with hard work, some government support and determination but they are still in the minority.


Yea, I don't really buy into Michael Moore, he is a real nut job. I know slavery had psychological impacts, so do a lot of things. What I'm saying is all you have to do is teach your 'kids' to do right in school to solve the issue. That is true for most people, unless actually handicapped. It's only a difficult task when you haven't been raised to be successful. You can be born deep in one of the worst ghettos, if you make your kids do right in school and make sure they do not hang out with the wrong crowds, they will be successful. If you do not raise your kids right, it's going to be difficult for them to turn their life around when they grow older. If all parents in bad neighborhoods just started watching their children and raising them right, a lot of the issues would start to fade out. Morgan Freeman was born in a bad poverty neighborhood, hetc was raised right and aimed for success, and he isn't the only one. What I'm saying is, continuing to not raise your children right and complaining is not going to solve anything. Blacks were way more successful when racism was much worse in the 60's. I learned this from a black man, the welfare state had a lot to do with it because it encouraged single parent homes. Static is show that in the 60's, blacks were way more successful and nearly 73% were two parent homes, now, as racism is dramatically lower and discrimination of race is very illegal, their success rates are much lower and single parent homes have climbed to 70%.

That's actually the cure, not just for blacks but for all people in poverty. We need programs to educate people on parenting, teaching your kids to be over achievers in school so they grow up to be successful. It's a cycle of slack parenting and getting pregnant too early and being a single parent, basically people need to be taught the art of responsibility, even white in poverty, they are spreading also, with yet again, crapy culture and horrible parenting skills. Teaching kids they will not be successful because of their skin color is what continues the cycle, you are basically teaching your kids to not be successful.



Last edited by Crimadella on 12 Apr 2019, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sly279
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12 Apr 2019, 7:58 pm

cyberdad wrote:
sly279 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Now now, let's not choke on Bernie's minor faux pas

He of course mean't that white people haven't historically experienced generations of poverty like black Americans (I doubt any white person had to endure slavery or share cropping) but he probably should have chosen his words a little more carefully in the context of the times.

If anything this endears Bernie to my heart even more, after all, too err is to be human, and he's human like the rest of us (unlike the orange haired liar)


You’re words.

In the modern era

Not what you said and modern is less then 100 years so blacks have been slaves in modern times either.
You really just can’t admit your wrong so you dig your hole deeper. :roll:



cyberdad
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12 Apr 2019, 8:47 pm

sly279 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
sly279 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Now now, let's not choke on Bernie's minor faux pas

He of course mean't that white people haven't historically experienced generations of poverty like black Americans (I doubt any white person had to endure slavery or share cropping) but he probably should have chosen his words a little more carefully in the context of the times.

If anything this endears Bernie to my heart even more, after all, too err is to be human, and he's human like the rest of us (unlike the orange haired liar)


You’re words.

In the modern era

Not what you said and modern is less then 100 years so blacks have been slaves in modern times either.
You really just can’t admit your wrong so you dig your hole deeper. :roll:

I think you are interpreting this in purely black/white times. Whites were slaves in Roman times so 2000 years later they have the same memory of that event that black AMericans do and that is certainly not the case (however much you believe it).

Back to the topic, Bernie is a politician and he made a comment that I wouldn't have said, I do, however, agree with his underlying premise that the black experience in poverty is not the same as the white experience. BTW I was paid to write on this topic by an Australian government agency (although a while back now) so I do know what I'm talking about.



cyberdad
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12 Apr 2019, 8:56 pm

Crimadella wrote:
Yea, I don't really buy into Michael Moore, he is a real nut job.

He's entertainerning and I was putting a spin on his famous saying

Crimadella wrote:
you do not raise your kids right, it's going to be difficult for them to turn their life around when they grow older. If all parents in bad neighborhoods just started watching their children and raising them right, a lot of the issues would start to fade out.

I think we can agree that problems start at home.

Crimadella wrote:
Morgan Freeman was born in a bad poverty neighborhood, hetc was raised right and aimed for success, and he isn't the only one. What I'm saying is, continuing to not raise your children right and complaining is not going to solve anything.

Yep this argument has been also been used in Australia, why don't aborigines work hard like refugees/migrants who came from poverty and within one generation kids are all in college and parents live in a double story house with Mercedes in the driveway. There are certainly success stories but not everyone is going to be an A-list actor like Morgan Freeman. The majority have to compete for regular jobs.

Crimadella wrote:
actually the cure, not just for blacks but for all people in poverty. We need programs to educate people on parenting, teaching your kids to be over achievers in school so they grow up to be successful. It's a cycle of slack parenting and getting pregnant too early and being a single parent, basically people need to be taught the art of responsibility, even white in poverty, they are spreading also, with yet again, crapy culture and horrible parenting skills. Teaching kids they will not be successful because of their skin color is what continues the cycle, you are basically teaching your kids to not be successful.

I think you are on the right track in terms of education but it takes two to tango and until social stigma carried by white Americans starts to reduce, social and institutional racism will remain a problem and the cycle will continue,