Trump: Illegal Immigrants Released to Sanctuary Cities

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Antrax
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18 Apr 2019, 3:06 am

EzraS wrote:
What other than the people would make those places shitholes?


Poor management and inertia, or a lack of natural resources. Norway is successful for a lot of reasons, but one of the biggest is that they have a lot of oil relative to their population. North Sea Oil made Norway rich.

The problem is not that the people in Haiti, El Salvador and African countries are somehow "inferior." Many people if transplanted from Haiti, El Salvador, or African countries to the U.S. would learn to live prosperous lives here. The problem is two-fold:

1) Having grown up in third world countries new immigrants lack the necessary knowledge and skills to immediately succeed in a developed country like the U.S. It takes immigrants time to fully adopt the knowledge and skills that make a country they immigrated to successful in the first place.

2) The combined population of Haiti, El Salvador, and Africa is 1.2 billion people. If just 10% wanted to come to the U.S. that would represent a 36% increase in the U.S. population and break every public system we have in place. The U.S. cannot accommodate every person who could have a better life in the U.S.


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EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 3:49 am

One thing that comes to mind with Hati is that it's on one half of an island. The other half is the Dominican Republic (my aunt is from there) which far as I know is considered to be a pleasant country and safe for tourists etc. My uncle has visted the DR and really likes the place.

So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.



cyberdad
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18 Apr 2019, 5:04 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Would I be racist for saying it is better to live in Norway than Sierra Leone?
Would I be racist for saying Norway is a better country than Sierra Leone?

But that's not what Trump said...

he said..“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” the president said, according to the Post, citing people briefed on the meeting. The Post said Trump was referring to Haiti, El Salvador and African countries.

He was making a qualitative judgement about the people not the country


What other than the people would make those places shitholes?

How about the countries that bled them dry like vampires...Spain for example?



cyberdad
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18 Apr 2019, 5:08 am

EzraS wrote:
So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.


Oh please...just read the history of that island,,,it makes for depressing reading
http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 59,00.html
Haiti had long been exploited, by foreign powers, neighbors and its own rulers. France not only milked Haiti for coffee and sugar production but also extracted an indemnity from it: the young nation had to pay a burdensome sum to its former colonizer in order to achieve France's diplomatic recognition. The lighter-skinned Dominicans looked down on the darker-skinned Haitians: in 1965, even as the Dominican Republic was embroiled in civil war, Haitians were working in Dominican fields and not the other way around.



EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 5:18 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.


Oh please...just read the history of that island,,,it makes for depressing reading
http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 59,00.html
Haiti had long been exploited, by foreign powers, neighbors and its own rulers. France not only milked Haiti for coffee and sugar production but also extracted an indemnity from it: the young nation had to pay a burdensome sum to its former colonizer in order to achieve France's diplomatic recognition. The lighter-skinned Dominicans looked down on the darker-skinned Haitians: in 1965, even as the Dominican Republic was embroiled in civil war, Haitians were working in Dominican fields and not the other way around.


So the Dominicans are responsible for its current problems?



kraftiekortie
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18 Apr 2019, 5:34 am

It’s the politics in Haiti....not the people.

Many Dominicans have also migrated to the United States.



cyberdad
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18 Apr 2019, 6:15 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.


Oh please...just read the history of that island,,,it makes for depressing reading
http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 59,00.html
Haiti had long been exploited, by foreign powers, neighbors and its own rulers. France not only milked Haiti for coffee and sugar production but also extracted an indemnity from it: the young nation had to pay a burdensome sum to its former colonizer in order to achieve France's diplomatic recognition. The lighter-skinned Dominicans looked down on the darker-skinned Haitians: in 1965, even as the Dominican Republic was embroiled in civil war, Haitians were working in Dominican fields and not the other way around.


So the Dominicans are responsible for its current problems?

Combination of the French punishing them with an economic blockade for going independent combined with exploitaton by other European powers and their own tin pot dictators like Papa doc and Baby doc Duvalier who stole money. The Dominicans just rub their faces in the dirt.



EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 6:39 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s the politics in Haiti....not the people.

Many Dominicans have also migrated to the United States.


Aren't people in charge of politics?



EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 6:49 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.


Oh please...just read the history of that island,,,it makes for depressing reading
http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 59,00.html
Haiti had long been exploited, by foreign powers, neighbors and its own rulers. France not only milked Haiti for coffee and sugar production but also extracted an indemnity from it: the young nation had to pay a burdensome sum to its former colonizer in order to achieve France's diplomatic recognition. The lighter-skinned Dominicans looked down on the darker-skinned Haitians: in 1965, even as the Dominican Republic was embroiled in civil war, Haitians were working in Dominican fields and not the other way around.


So the Dominicans are responsible for its current problems?

Combination of the French punishing them with an economic blockade for going independent combined with exploitaton by other European powers and their own tin pot dictators like Papa doc and Baby doc Duvalier who stole money. The Dominicans just rub their faces in the dirt.


Who is to blame these days?



kraftiekortie
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18 Apr 2019, 9:17 am

The government, usually, is not the "people."

In totalitarian regimes, that certainly is true.

The government of Haiti sucks; the people, by and large, don't.



EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 10:24 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The government, usually, is not the "people."

In totalitarian regimes, that certainly is true.

The government of Haiti sucks; the people, by and large, don't.


The general population isn't to blame, but there are a lot of people in positions of power there who are. All the focus seems to be on the president of the United States, while the president of Hati and his administration seem to go overlooked. And the same with the presidents and administrations of other countries like Guatemala, El Salvador, Venezuela etc. And on top of that, they're acting like president of the United States is picking on these corrupt governments by imposing sanctions for human rights violations, because they're "brown people".



cyberdad
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18 Apr 2019, 7:37 pm

You will notice historically that almost all post-colonial countries end up with authoritarian dictators who are (coincidentally) pro-American or propped up by ex-colonial masters and/or multinational corporations.

For example an Australian mining company has complete control over an entire country (Papua New Guinea) and bankroll every prime minster in order to exploit the countries natural resources. The local people's lives are so backward and undeveloped that refugees who travel to Australia from the middle east and Sri Lanka consider it inhumane to be forcibly asked to live in this country (despite coming from war zones).



EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 8:17 pm

So Australia forces its Middle-East refugees to live on Papua New Guinea?



cyberdad
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18 Apr 2019, 8:48 pm

Yep Manus Island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manus_Reg ... ing_Centre

It's called an offshore regional processing centre for refugees



EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 9:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Yep Manus Island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manus_Reg ... ing_Centre

It's called an offshore regional processing centre for refugees


So all you talk about is what Trump does, while your own government is mistreating refugees.