Trump: Illegal Immigrants Released to Sanctuary Cities

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EzraS
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17 Apr 2019, 7:07 am

Drake wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Is it just a matter of semantics?

So no past president would ever make comments like that about American trading partners - it's highly inflammatory and undiplomatic

It is alleged and Trump denies it.


I find it highly unlikely that past presidents have not said things behind closed doors that they wouldn't want repeated.

Also of course Trump is unlike any past president. He's an elderly hardboiled businessman who had zero experience as a politician who was never politically correct and has always been outspoken.

They complain that he has no filter, but at least everyone knows what he really thinks. Although the press still finds it necessary to make stuff up about him.



EzraS
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17 Apr 2019, 8:02 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Is it just a matter of semantics?

So no past president would ever make comments like that about American trading partners - it's highly inflammatory and undiplomatic


Undiplomatic towards corrupt incompetent presidents who's citizens want to flee their countries? Maybe they need a US president to be blunt and hard-nosed towards them for a change.



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17 Apr 2019, 8:25 am

There's nothing wrong with a person being blunt. I just don't like his international policies. He shouldn't have said those things about NATO. And he shouldn't have pulled out of the Paris agreement.

It's like the big bully lording it over everybody. He's making the United States the Big Bully more than other Presidents have done (and yes, we've been a "big bully" for a long time). He's not smart about it. He's too "schoolyard." Like people I grew up with.



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17 Apr 2019, 11:02 am

cberg wrote:
I'm half Norwegian, exceptionalism concerning any country is racist. Saying one country is better than another is no better than saying one country is worse than any other.


This is an absurd statement.

The average person living in Sierra Leone can expect to live to a ripe old age of 50, makes $340 per year, has a 50-50 shot of being able to read, has no access to the internet, and has less economic freedom than the average person living in Iran.

The average person living in Norway can expect to live to 82, makes $63,000 dollars per year, has known how to read from a young age, has some of the fastest internet access in the world, and has more economic freedom than the average person living in Japan.

Would I be racist for saying it is better to live in Norway than Sierra Leone?
Would I be racist for saying Norway is a better country than Sierra Leone?


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EzraS
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17 Apr 2019, 11:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
There's nothing wrong with a person being blunt. I just don't like his international policies. He shouldn't have said those things about NATO. And he shouldn't have pulled out of the Paris agreement.

It's like the big bully lording it over everybody. He's making the United States the Big Bully more than other Presidents have done (and yes, we've been a "big bully" for a long time). He's not smart about it. He's too "schoolyard." Like people I grew up with.


I'm not saying I approve of his tactics, but I figure why not try to see a potentially positive aspect. I figure it's not going to do me any good to be pissed off all the time. And I never expected him to act like other presidents because he's nothing like any of them background wise. The closest might be Ronald Reagan who was a former actor, but he was also a governor before he became president.



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17 Apr 2019, 12:26 pm

Trump Is Hell-Bent on ‘Owning the Libs’ by Jonah Goldberg for the National Review

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President Trump is looking into giving a free trip to San Francisco, New Orleans, or other great American cities to tens of thousands of refugees from Central America. All so he can own the libs.

“Owning the libs” is one of those phrases to have emerged over the past few years that vacillates between earnestness and irony. For people who use it earnestly, it means to do something, usually symbolic and petty, that infuriates liberals out of proportion to the deed to make fools of them. For instance, wearing a MAGA hat to a feminist poetry reading at a co-op bookstore in Berkeley. It’s a form of taking the culture war to the enemy.

The ironic form of the phrase is to engage in unwitting self-sabotage while making a political point. When pro-Trump Internet troll and conspiracy theorist Jack Posobiec (now a “correspondent” at One America News) had his wedding rehearsal dinner catered by Papa John’s Pizza — then unpopular with the libs — that was some righteous lib-ownage. Hence one Twitter user’s response to Posobiec catering choices: “Eating horrible pizza at my wedding to own the libs.”

Much of Trump’s populist appeal stems from his willingness to go out of his way to own the libs.

Give the president credit: He is a kind of savant at the genre, particularly in his preferred métier of Twitter. Tweeting footage of the 9/11 attacks while criticizing Representative Ilhan Omar (D., Minn.) last week is a good example, but his Colin Kaepernick tweets and calls to revoke media broadcast licenses are part of the canon. His defenders think this stuff is brilliant because it keeps the base riled up and, allegedly, produces gallons of delicious liberal tears. When you point out that such tweets offend more voters than they attract, “Shut up,” they explain.

Stemming illegal (and sometimes legal) immigration is the president’s signature issue. Moving the thousands of refugees currently in detention to sanctuary cities is literally achieving the opposite of his goal.

Moreover, the reason there’s a refugee crisis at the border is that desperate Central Americans believe this is their now-or-never moment to get asylum in the United States. What will happen when video of buses depositing refugees in Colorado, Vermont, or Oregon is broadcast across South America?

Trump keeps asserting that these refugees are an army of invading murderers, rapists, and drug dealers — and apparently, he thinks most Americans believe him. So of course, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other San Francisco liberals must be terrified that the president has called their bluff.

The thing is, most immigrants who are in the United States illegally end up going to these very localities. Sixty percent of them reside in just 20 metro areas, most of which have adopted sanctuary policies and limited their cooperation with immigration enforcement. In other words, Trump is proposing fulfilling the final leg of the travel plans of every caravan working its way through Mexico.

During the 2016 campaign, Trump made Kate Steinle, the San Francisco woman who was tragically shot and killed by a man who’d been previously deported five times, into a martyr for his cause. Trump’s logic suggests we need more Kate Steinles to own the libs.

Trump’s trolling could pay off if some Democrats — say, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York — call on Pelosi and Congress to take the president up on his offer. Then, Trump could say, “See! The Democrats really do want open borders!”

That such a scenario is not unimaginable is further proof that our politics can always get dumber.


Bolding mine


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17 Apr 2019, 5:20 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There's nothing wrong with a person being blunt. I just don't like his international policies. He shouldn't have said those things about NATO. And he shouldn't have pulled out of the Paris agreement.

It's like the big bully lording it over everybody. He's making the United States the Big Bully more than other Presidents have done (and yes, we've been a "big bully" for a long time). He's not smart about it. He's too "schoolyard." Like people I grew up with.

Nation needs to pull their weight instead of using the USA. Now they’re starting to pull their weight. So I see nothing wrong with it.
He’s way better international policies then Obama .
The Paris agreement was a scam that would hurt only the USA while other nations continue to pollute the earth and get richer.


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18 Apr 2019, 1:22 am

Antrax wrote:
Would I be racist for saying it is better to live in Norway than Sierra Leone?
Would I be racist for saying Norway is a better country than Sierra Leone?

But that's not what Trump said...

he said..“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” the president said, according to the Post, citing people briefed on the meeting. The Post said Trump was referring to Haiti, El Salvador and African countries.

He was making a qualitative judgement about the people not the country



EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 2:31 am

cyberdad wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Would I be racist for saying it is better to live in Norway than Sierra Leone?
Would I be racist for saying Norway is a better country than Sierra Leone?

But that's not what Trump said...

he said..“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” the president said, according to the Post, citing people briefed on the meeting. The Post said Trump was referring to Haiti, El Salvador and African countries.

He was making a qualitative judgement about the people not the country


What other than the people would make those places shitholes?



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18 Apr 2019, 3:06 am

EzraS wrote:
What other than the people would make those places shitholes?


Poor management and inertia, or a lack of natural resources. Norway is successful for a lot of reasons, but one of the biggest is that they have a lot of oil relative to their population. North Sea Oil made Norway rich.

The problem is not that the people in Haiti, El Salvador and African countries are somehow "inferior." Many people if transplanted from Haiti, El Salvador, or African countries to the U.S. would learn to live prosperous lives here. The problem is two-fold:

1) Having grown up in third world countries new immigrants lack the necessary knowledge and skills to immediately succeed in a developed country like the U.S. It takes immigrants time to fully adopt the knowledge and skills that make a country they immigrated to successful in the first place.

2) The combined population of Haiti, El Salvador, and Africa is 1.2 billion people. If just 10% wanted to come to the U.S. that would represent a 36% increase in the U.S. population and break every public system we have in place. The U.S. cannot accommodate every person who could have a better life in the U.S.


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EzraS
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18 Apr 2019, 3:49 am

One thing that comes to mind with Hati is that it's on one half of an island. The other half is the Dominican Republic (my aunt is from there) which far as I know is considered to be a pleasant country and safe for tourists etc. My uncle has visted the DR and really likes the place.

So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.



cyberdad
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18 Apr 2019, 5:04 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Would I be racist for saying it is better to live in Norway than Sierra Leone?
Would I be racist for saying Norway is a better country than Sierra Leone?

But that's not what Trump said...

he said..“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” the president said, according to the Post, citing people briefed on the meeting. The Post said Trump was referring to Haiti, El Salvador and African countries.

He was making a qualitative judgement about the people not the country


What other than the people would make those places shitholes?

How about the countries that bled them dry like vampires...Spain for example?



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18 Apr 2019, 5:08 am

EzraS wrote:
So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.


Oh please...just read the history of that island,,,it makes for depressing reading
http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 59,00.html
Haiti had long been exploited, by foreign powers, neighbors and its own rulers. France not only milked Haiti for coffee and sugar production but also extracted an indemnity from it: the young nation had to pay a burdensome sum to its former colonizer in order to achieve France's diplomatic recognition. The lighter-skinned Dominicans looked down on the darker-skinned Haitians: in 1965, even as the Dominican Republic was embroiled in civil war, Haitians were working in Dominican fields and not the other way around.



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18 Apr 2019, 5:18 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.


Oh please...just read the history of that island,,,it makes for depressing reading
http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 59,00.html
Haiti had long been exploited, by foreign powers, neighbors and its own rulers. France not only milked Haiti for coffee and sugar production but also extracted an indemnity from it: the young nation had to pay a burdensome sum to its former colonizer in order to achieve France's diplomatic recognition. The lighter-skinned Dominicans looked down on the darker-skinned Haitians: in 1965, even as the Dominican Republic was embroiled in civil war, Haitians were working in Dominican fields and not the other way around.


So the Dominicans are responsible for its current problems?



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18 Apr 2019, 5:34 am

It’s the politics in Haiti....not the people.

Many Dominicans have also migrated to the United States.



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18 Apr 2019, 6:15 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the conclusion I find myself coming to is that it's the people of Hati that makes it a bad place. The way they run the place and behave there is why its problems exist.


Oh please...just read the history of that island,,,it makes for depressing reading
http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 59,00.html
Haiti had long been exploited, by foreign powers, neighbors and its own rulers. France not only milked Haiti for coffee and sugar production but also extracted an indemnity from it: the young nation had to pay a burdensome sum to its former colonizer in order to achieve France's diplomatic recognition. The lighter-skinned Dominicans looked down on the darker-skinned Haitians: in 1965, even as the Dominican Republic was embroiled in civil war, Haitians were working in Dominican fields and not the other way around.


So the Dominicans are responsible for its current problems?

Combination of the French punishing them with an economic blockade for going independent combined with exploitaton by other European powers and their own tin pot dictators like Papa doc and Baby doc Duvalier who stole money. The Dominicans just rub their faces in the dirt.