20 Apr 2019, 7:06 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Harpuia wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Harpuia wrote:
Buttigieg isn't winning this way.
He wants to use his religion and "redefine Christianity". But reality is you're not going to. Take it from someone who grew up in that environment. Christianity IS hand-in-hand with the Republican party and conservative ideology in this country, and that is probably never going to change.
You're going to isolate the progressive left who despises Christianity and all things religion right now, as they see it as the symbol of Republicans, the symbol of Trump.
And if by some miracle he makes it to the general election, you have people like Bachmann, Huckabee, etc., that most of the devout religious see as "true Christians" saying Trump is a paragon of Christianity (Bachmann going so far as saying we will probably never have a more Christian president in our history) while Buttigieg is being heckled around being called the "son of Gomorrah". Who do you think wins the religious vote?
So he's not going to win like this. Unfortunately, as much as it's annoying, he's going to have to follow the progressive left and either ignore or be hostile toward the religious in order to have any hope of winning.
He wants to use his religion and "redefine Christianity". But reality is you're not going to. Take it from someone who grew up in that environment. Christianity IS hand-in-hand with the Republican party and conservative ideology in this country, and that is probably never going to change.
You're going to isolate the progressive left who despises Christianity and all things religion right now, as they see it as the symbol of Republicans, the symbol of Trump.
And if by some miracle he makes it to the general election, you have people like Bachmann, Huckabee, etc., that most of the devout religious see as "true Christians" saying Trump is a paragon of Christianity (Bachmann going so far as saying we will probably never have a more Christian president in our history) while Buttigieg is being heckled around being called the "son of Gomorrah". Who do you think wins the religious vote?
So he's not going to win like this. Unfortunately, as much as it's annoying, he's going to have to follow the progressive left and either ignore or be hostile toward the religious in order to have any hope of winning.
Actually, I consider myself to be of the progressive left, but I also fancy myself to be a Christian. I hardly consider Buttigeig as so divisive.
I have "friends" (I use that term very loosely) on the progressive left on Facebook that would never vote for Buttigieg because of his religious tendencies. He's been getting a surprising amount of votes from more centrist and conservative (they still exist?) Democrats. Unfortunately, we centrists are poison this election cycle.
You sound cool though. I like economic progressives who are willing to look at options besides Bernie Sanders and whatever AOC likes. Bernie's cool and all, but he feels very different this time around, and I can't put my finger as to why.
Me? I like Buttigieg and Yang. But the progressive left I know would never vote in a devout Christian or an Asian man. At least not right now. Yang especially prob has a better chance primarying Trump than trying to go for the DNC nom especially since some liberal media articles I've been reading have been trying to tie him and his ideas to the alt-right.
Why thank you!
Maybe because I'm a Lutheran, I've been raised with certain notions: such as that there's the Kingdom of the right hand (God's realm, which is both heaven and in the hearts of believers), and the Kingdom of the left hand (the kingdom of man, or secular government, which is flawed being of man). While God rules both, they are kept separate, which in fact Madison credited to the origins of separation of church and state. And of course, Luther himself had once observed: "I'd rather be ruled over by a competent, unbelieving Turk than by an incompetent Christian."
As Buttigeig is an Episcopalian, I wouldn't be a bit surprised that he's familiar with such thinking, as the founder of his faith, Thomas Crammer, had been one of Luther's theological students. They are also a mainline denomination, as are Lutherans, thus having more sensible ideas.
I've never heard of Crammer. I always thought the Episcopal Church was founded by King Henry VIII.
20 Apr 2019, 7:28 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
20 Apr 2019, 7:32 pm
Tim_Tex wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Harpuia wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Harpuia wrote:
Buttigieg isn't winning this way.
He wants to use his religion and "redefine Christianity". But reality is you're not going to. Take it from someone who grew up in that environment. Christianity IS hand-in-hand with the Republican party and conservative ideology in this country, and that is probably never going to change.
You're going to isolate the progressive left who despises Christianity and all things religion right now, as they see it as the symbol of Republicans, the symbol of Trump.
And if by some miracle he makes it to the general election, you have people like Bachmann, Huckabee, etc., that most of the devout religious see as "true Christians" saying Trump is a paragon of Christianity (Bachmann going so far as saying we will probably never have a more Christian president in our history) while Buttigieg is being heckled around being called the "son of Gomorrah". Who do you think wins the religious vote?
So he's not going to win like this. Unfortunately, as much as it's annoying, he's going to have to follow the progressive left and either ignore or be hostile toward the religious in order to have any hope of winning.
He wants to use his religion and "redefine Christianity". But reality is you're not going to. Take it from someone who grew up in that environment. Christianity IS hand-in-hand with the Republican party and conservative ideology in this country, and that is probably never going to change.
You're going to isolate the progressive left who despises Christianity and all things religion right now, as they see it as the symbol of Republicans, the symbol of Trump.
And if by some miracle he makes it to the general election, you have people like Bachmann, Huckabee, etc., that most of the devout religious see as "true Christians" saying Trump is a paragon of Christianity (Bachmann going so far as saying we will probably never have a more Christian president in our history) while Buttigieg is being heckled around being called the "son of Gomorrah". Who do you think wins the religious vote?
So he's not going to win like this. Unfortunately, as much as it's annoying, he's going to have to follow the progressive left and either ignore or be hostile toward the religious in order to have any hope of winning.
Actually, I consider myself to be of the progressive left, but I also fancy myself to be a Christian. I hardly consider Buttigeig as so divisive.
I have "friends" (I use that term very loosely) on the progressive left on Facebook that would never vote for Buttigieg because of his religious tendencies. He's been getting a surprising amount of votes from more centrist and conservative (they still exist?) Democrats. Unfortunately, we centrists are poison this election cycle.
You sound cool though. I like economic progressives who are willing to look at options besides Bernie Sanders and whatever AOC likes. Bernie's cool and all, but he feels very different this time around, and I can't put my finger as to why.
Me? I like Buttigieg and Yang. But the progressive left I know would never vote in a devout Christian or an Asian man. At least not right now. Yang especially prob has a better chance primarying Trump than trying to go for the DNC nom especially since some liberal media articles I've been reading have been trying to tie him and his ideas to the alt-right.
Why thank you!
Maybe because I'm a Lutheran, I've been raised with certain notions: such as that there's the Kingdom of the right hand (God's realm, which is both heaven and in the hearts of believers), and the Kingdom of the left hand (the kingdom of man, or secular government, which is flawed being of man). While God rules both, they are kept separate, which in fact Madison credited to the origins of separation of church and state. And of course, Luther himself had once observed: "I'd rather be ruled over by a competent, unbelieving Turk than by an incompetent Christian."
As Buttigeig is an Episcopalian, I wouldn't be a bit surprised that he's familiar with such thinking, as the founder of his faith, Thomas Crammer, had been one of Luther's theological students. They are also a mainline denomination, as are Lutherans, thus having more sensible ideas.
I've never heard of Crammer. I always thought the Episcopal Church was founded by King Henry VIII.
It was Henry who parted with Rome, but it was Crammer who was the theological thinker behind the Anglican Communion, which includes the Episcopal faith.
20 Apr 2019, 7:47 pm
20 Apr 2019, 8:43 pm
21 Apr 2019, 9:05 am
21 Apr 2019, 10:24 am
21 Apr 2019, 10:37 am
21 Apr 2019, 12:24 pm
