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gwynfryn
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21 Aug 2019, 10:53 am

firemonkey wrote:
Gwynfryn is saying they're completely different , not just a case of adjective vs noun. I'd like to know what factors make them clinically different .


First there were Hysteroid, Manic, Paranoid, Autistic, Depressive and Epileptoid, which are the aspects of the psyche that together determine our personalities. Then Kanner borrowed from Autistic to form Autism!



SaveFerris
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21 Aug 2019, 11:01 am

gwynfryn wrote:
Oraq: Very funny I’m sure!


I banned your sockpuppet , no need to talk to him any more.


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firemonkey
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21 Aug 2019, 12:39 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
How does autism differ from autistic? Some info please.


How often do we have t go through this? I've explained it at length, and offered you the Humm & Wadsworth Scale (1935) and Rosanoff's "Theory of Personality..." (1921) which you can Google for independently, if you don't want to trust the reams I've already posted here…



Now I'm wondering whether hubris is a common trait of those on the spectrum, or whether it's just a personality quirk of yours .



Mona Pereth
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21 Aug 2019, 4:20 pm

Oraq wrote:
Mona Pereth, I've challenged you to substantiate your claims by quoting Bleuler's use of "autism" (he did use autistic, as you describe) but you have not done so.

Bleuler is widely credited for coining the term "autism" in many articles on the web, written by many knowledgeable people. Apparently you're claiming that all these many people are wrong and that the word "autism" doesn't actually appear in any of Bleuler's writings?

To see if that's a possibility, I decided to try looking to see if any of these many web articles had a bibliography.

This article about Paul Eugen Bleuler (1857–1939) lists the following books of his:

- Bleuler, Eugen, and Carl Gustav Jung. “Komplexe und Krankheitsursachen bei Dementia praecox.” Zentralblatt fur Nervenheilkunde und Psychiatrie (1908): 220–227.
- Bleuler, Eugen. Dementia Praecox, oder, Gruppe der Schizophrenien. Leipzig: Franz Deuticke, 1911. https://archive.org/details/b21296157 (Accessed March 28, 2016).
- Bleuler, Eugen. Lehrbuch der Psychiatrie. Berlin: Verlag von Julius Springer, 1916. https://archive.org/details/Bleuler_1916_Lehrbuch (Accessed April 16, 2016).
- Bleuler, Eugen. The Textbook of Psychiatry. Trans. Abraham Arden Brill. New York: The Macmillan Company, 1934. https://archive.org/stream/textbookofps ... e/n5/mode/ 2up (Accessed April 16, 2016).
- Bleuler, Eugen. Dementia Praecox or the Group of Schizophrenias. Trans. Joseph Zinkin. New York: International Universities Press, 1950.

The Wikipedia article about Paul Eugen Bleuler credits him with coining the word "autism" with a footnote referring to the following book: Peter Gay, Freud: A Life for Our Time (1989) p. 198.

I don't have time right now to comb through the above books, but maybe I'll do a word search on the online ones later.

I also found this page which says that the word Bleuler actually used was the Latin form "autismus" rather than just "autism". But that's a trivial difference IMO. I hope you'll agree.

EDIT: I found "autismus" in online copies of writings by Bleuler here (1916) and here (1911). Good enough?


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Mona Pereth
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21 Aug 2019, 5:36 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
A bit of a challenge, after all, as, though the web can be edited, robots can’t erase books or microfiches, so the truth is never going to be further away than the nearest reference library, for those who can be bothered to look…

So you're claiming that someone edited the online copies of Bleuler's books? Who do you think did that, and when, and why?

I did find "autismus" in online copies of his 1911 and 1916 books. See my post above.


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gwynfryn
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23 Aug 2019, 10:21 am

gwynfryn wrote:
Oraq: Very funny I’m sure! There was a time I might have been annoyed that you’ve probably blown away any credibility I may have had here, when I’ve been pointing out the ongoing attempt to rewrite what autism originally meant for getting on two decades, but it’s become irrelevant, as times have changed. One particularly big plus is that thriller writers seem to have latched onto autistics as quirky but likable forces for good, and quite right too; there’s nothing malignant about the autistic personality type. The downside it the way the media now tends to apply the label to any convicted killers who appear creepy, which is hugely inaccurate.

There’s the very widely read Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (the first?) and I’m currently reading King and [oops, I can’t remember the second name] which has one such character, another hacking genius (why hacking? Not one of my talents, for sure) who, apart from some occasional misunderstandings, seems a thoroughly decent guy, and who, according to the cover blurb, was the subject of another book in the series (probably Simple Genius) which I’ll be looking to acquire.


It’s King and Maxwell, about the two most intriguing characters I’ve encountered in thrillers. The story too is a cracker, right up until the very end when it descends into complete silliness! Yet another case of an author, who will consult experts in most fields, always think they can handle anything mechanical themselves, which can result, as here, in some absurd screw-ups!



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25 Aug 2019, 5:19 am

Why is it that BAP (broad autism phenotype) rarely gets mentioned?

This is a huge blind spot!

Many of the historical figures mentioned earlier and present day individuals like bill gates for example probably just had/have BAP.

BAP isnt a disability but ASD nearly always is.

The presence of BAP in one or both parents increases the odds of autism in the child.

Watched a long youtube documenty on it and it was very clear that in the near future a pediction of autism can be made by a whole genome seq of both parents without the need for pre fetal testing.

In the future with the cost of WGS falling it wouldnt supprise me if it became common place for couples to match their genes before starting a serious relationship, not just for autism but probably all other disorders.


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25 Aug 2019, 2:29 pm

carlos55 wrote:
Why is it that BAP (broad autism phenotype) rarely gets mentioned?

This is a huge blind spot!

Many of the historical figures mentioned earlier and present day individuals like bill gates for example probably just had/have BAP.

BAP isnt a disability but ASD nearly always is.

The presence of BAP in one or both parents increases the odds of autism in the child.

Watched a long youtube documenty on it and it was very clear that in the near future a pediction of autism can be made by a whole genome seq of both parents without the need for pre fetal testing.

In the future with the cost of WGS falling it wouldnt supprise me if it became common place for couples to match their genes before starting a serious relationship, not just for autism but probably all other disorders.
It is sort of a disability because people with BAP report extremely high levels of lonelyness and isolation


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Mona Pereth
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27 Aug 2019, 10:43 am

Here's a thread on a closely related topic recently posted in the GAD sub-forum: What is autism? How the term became too broad to have meanin.


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