A problem I have with the alt-right (and some anti-SJWs)

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Actually there are laws that do discriminate on people for race, passed by Obama. I do not believe in protected classes , I believe in segregation of men and women in private places like bathrooms, dressing rooms and sports, I wouldn't say that makes women a protected class though. Beyond that, all people should be equal, including women. People should not be discriminated on for race, gender or sexual orientation. Affirmative action is a law that discriminates on race, "to many skilled white people, a black person must be hired even if they are less qualified", that is not equal rights, that is a protected class. There should only be laws against discrimination, not discrimination of protected classes. Whites make up over 65% of the US, that's why there tends to be more of them in the work place(depending on the work place). All I can say is good luck trying to sue a place for discriminating on someone for being white, not to count that law that enforces discrimination. All that should matter is someone's skill, not trying to met a diverse outcome, it's not equality when a lower qualified person gets a job based on their race and a more skilled person doesn't get a job based on their race. People should fight for true equality, not protected classes.

Last edited by Crimadella on 05 May 2019, 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I pretty much agree with all that you're saying. I'm definitely not going to waste my time and breath trying to have discourse with people who are close-minded and stuck in their beliefs, nor should other people try to do that. That wasn't the message I was trying to get across. Nobody is obligated to convince or influence anti-vaxxers, Nazis, or KKK members and I wouldn't even try to.

Oh, I agree with you on that. It should be about skill and who is qualified for the job.

You would be supersized, talking to people does not always help, but it is nice when it does. Take for example, a black man(Forgot his name) got really famous for attending KKK meetings and just talking to them getting over 200 of them to denounce their membership, even a KKK grand wizard. That is the power of patients, kindness and willingness to have conversations with people you disagree with. To leave radicals alone and segregate them is to pretty much guarantee they remain radicals.

Patience and kindness go a long way for some people (it's amazing that the man was able to convert so many KKK members), but sometimes neither are enough. I'm not going to exhaust myself trying to talk reason with people who refuse to see reason. If there's other people that are willing to do that, that's great, but I'm only going to have conversations with people who are willing to be challenged on their beliefs and criticized.

I just don't think freedom of speech covers not being criticized or mocked for what you say. I agree with the government not punishing people for speech but if you say nasty horrible things, seems unfair people in society can't criticize or mock it. I mean as much as people have the right to say what they want, people also have the right to be offended by it or to criticize it. Freedom of speech in the constitution certainly does not dictate that you can say whatever you want wherever you want without any kind of social penalty, it simply protects free speech from infringement of government.

Also biologically females tend to be smaller than males, so it makes it easier for males to over-power women, granted there are exceptions not every man is stronger than every woman but it tends to be the rule. Not sure they are over-all more violent or if society has just pushed more violent roles onto males...like going to battle.

I was watching a documentary a muslim american journalist woman did. She interviewed white supremacists and people involved in the neo nazi movement. One of the people she interviewed and talked to was a higher up in one of these groups and over the course of the documentary he changed his view some. Initially he admitted he would support someone like her being deported. But he came to see her as more of a friend and towards the end he apparently resigned from his white supremacy post and said he had changed his mind about her. Granted one of the other people she interviewed did not learn anything and was later arrested for some neo-nazi related crime or something. But it was interesting to watch that...and sheesh it has to take some courage to talk to people like that being a muslim american woman I wonder if she was worried for her safety at any point in making the documentary.

Change comes from within...

Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?...
A: One, but the light bulb has got to want to change...

So you are saying this is the norm?

Most situations I can think of have exceptions to "the rule"...
To stereotype is foolishness...
I don't stereotype...

And once again, change comes from within...
No one can be forced to believe in something against their will, assuming normal circumstances...
I think you need to give the person changing due credit...



Choose your battles, agreed...

No I am not sure its a norm, just it certainly is possible sometimes dialogue with people can be effective in making them think more and potentially question the way they are thinking. Of everyone this journalist talked to that person was the only one who had a change of heart...most just kept on with the nazi stuff and some people cannot be reached.

You are mostly agreeing on the basic points

1. The government has no right to go after people for what they say

2. Freedom of speech is not a right not to be criticized or face non criminal reprisals

3. Private companies can restrict what their employees say

As far as the culture vs legal thing I use "freedom of speech" for the legal right and "freedom of expression" for more broad lack of censorship

What has been missing from this discussion is that there is a growing issue of criminal reprisals against people expressing their views and certain government and other authorities looking other way or enabling such reprisals. IMHO these governments are failing in their duty to protect free speech rights.

I'm not American so I don't know too much about the protected classes thing, but here in the UK there was a school that tried to teach children about tolerating gay people and the Muslim parents kicked off and started shouting "Shame" and all that, had they been British they would have been arrested for hate speech.

Yeah I am not saying people should be free from criticism I am saying that its not only the government that effects free speech.

For instance lets say a girl lives in an area that is strongly pro life, she expresses her pro choice views. She is then fired from her job, no landlord will rent her an apartment, shops refuse to sell her food, the bank shuts down her account. Even though the government didn't punish her speech her speech wasn't free as it lead to her being depersoned.

Agreed...

ITT: BlueIris24 has just red-pilled herself regarding the alt-right, but apparently not all posters are prepared to take that step yet.

I thought affirmative action was more hiring a black person just as qualified, rather than hiring another white person. Not hiring a less qualified black person over a more qualified white person. I am not sure its actually an effective solution to increase diversity, but the idea behind it is to give them a more equal chance, it's under the assumption the company might pick white people over black people who are equally qualified most times.

I actually think maybe companies should have a double blind hiring process, where they don't see the name, gender, race or any details about the employee aside from their work record and what they say on their resume to sell their skills. Not sure if this could actually be implemented but that would really be the only sure way of making sure the employer is not discriminating.