Antifa. Anti-fascist? WTF?

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mr_bigmouth_502
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21 May 2019, 6:55 am

Daniel89 wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Neo Nazis and other fascists deserve to get their asses beat. They've killed a good number of people through mass shootings and whatnot, so whooping their asses would be justified.

Do you feel the same about Socialists? Muslims? Christians?

Hell no. There are bad Muslims, Christians, and socialists out there, but there's nothing wrong with being any of those things. Now, being a Nazi, on the other hand, means that you stand for racism and other forms of discrimination, and against democracy and human rights.

There is nothing wrong with being a Muslim? Muslims believe Muhammad was morally perfect despite him being a Slave owning warlord, serial rapist and paedophile.

Both Christians and Muslims worship a God that allows children to be raped and starved to death. That condemns billions of people to eternal torture in Hell. That is literally infinitely worse than Nazism.

Socialism has killed far more than Nazism and also does not believe in Human rights.

I'd be dead if it weren't for socialism.

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Wolfram87
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21 May 2019, 7:06 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I'd be dead if it weren't for socialism.

Can't help but think you'd be dead as a direct result of Socialism under any number of regimes. And furthermore, strong Social Safety-Net =/= Socialism.

Signed

A Capitalist country frequently mistaken for a Socialist one.

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techstepgenr8tion
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21 May 2019, 7:11 am

I think these things tend to get flipped into binary too often and yeah, clearly we aren't living in 1940's Europe where the 'where its at' is either Communism of Fascism. Where we are now is a place where we've depended on Capitalism as the more liberal system than anything else available and technological advancement is gutting it's capacity to take care of even those who can work, hence we're getting to a point where we have to decide whether technology aids and supports human life or just speeds up the rate at which we decide who we'd deem unworthy of life. This is where instead of having a clear leader we're forced to try and think through some sort of amalgam system which tries to take as many of the advantages of Capitalism, like markets, and then at the same time has enough boiler-plate under it that we don't erase western culture in this sort of Hunger Games, smash-and-grab flash-bang and then collapse into some sort of dark age as a result.

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Pepe
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21 May 2019, 7:27 am

Tim_Tex wrote:

Should we define "fascists" as all conservatives?

Apparently, some on the *far* left do. <shrug>

funeralxempire
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21 May 2019, 6:35 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

Should we define "fascists" as all conservatives?

But reactionaries are fascists, not conservatives. Some reactionaries self-identify as conservatives but that's because it's more socially acceptable to be a conservative than to be a reactionary or a self-admitted fascist.

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mr_bigmouth_502
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22 May 2019, 6:59 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I'd be dead if it weren't for socialism.

Socialism =/= communism. Ever heard of democratic socialism? That's what Canada and the Scandinavian countries practice.

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Wolfram87
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22 May 2019, 8:43 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Wolfram87 wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I'd be dead if it weren't for socialism.

Socialism =/= communism. Ever heard of democratic socialism? That's what Canada and the Scandinavian countries practice.

No, it's not. Democratic Socialism is not the same thing as Social Democracy, which is what we have in Scandinavia. More precisely, the Nordic Model.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_mo ... mic_system

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funeralxempire
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22 May 2019, 3:11 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Wolfram87 wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I'd be dead if it weren't for socialism.

Socialism =/= communism. Ever heard of democratic socialism? That's what Canada and the Scandinavian countries practice.

Canada has a mixed-market economy, we're not a socialist nation by any stretch of the word other than possibly the Fox News definition of socialism.

RushKing
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22 May 2019, 3:20 pm

Wikipedia wrote:

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Daniel89 wrote:

Socialism has killed far more than Nazism and also does not believe in Human rights.

Seeing that socialism is often defined as worker ownership and control of the means of production; how many people did worker cooperatives kill?

RushKing
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22 May 2019, 4:09 pm

Pepe wrote:

Quote:

"Hey, dipshits, when you move into the arena for violence, what do you think is going to happen."

Strange coming from Kyle. He's already in the arena of violence. He's okay with violence as long the state apparatus does it for him.

Pepe
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22 May 2019, 6:41 pm

RushKing wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Quote:

"Hey, dipshits, when you move into the arena for violence, what do you think is going to happen."

Strange coming from Kyle. He's already in the arena of violence. He's okay with violence as long the state apparatus does it for him.

You know him.
I don't, granted.
But the message in the video was a good one, imo. <shrug>

RushKing
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22 May 2019, 7:37 pm

Pepe wrote:

RushKing wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Quote:

"Hey, dipshits, when you move into the arena for violence, what do you think is going to happen."

Strange coming from Kyle. He's already in the arena of violence. He's okay with violence as long the state apparatus does it for him.

You know him.
I don't, granted.

Kyle is a plain social democrat and Noam Chomsky is an anarchist. Kyle's ideology, like every other state ideology requires a great deal of violence to meet its ends.

I have disagreements with Chomsky too, even though we are both anarchists.

Pepe wrote:

But the message in the video was a good one, imo. <shrug>

To each his own.

Every political action (in the right circumstances) has potential to generate retaliatory force. I wasn't satisfied with these arguments.

mr_bigmouth_502
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23 May 2019, 7:02 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Wolfram87 wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I'd be dead if it weren't for socialism.

Socialism =/= communism. Ever heard of democratic socialism? That's what Canada and the Scandinavian countries practice.

Democratic socialism, social democracy, what's the f*****g difference?

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Wolfram87
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23 May 2019, 7:15 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Democratic socialism, social democracy, what's the f*****g difference?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_de ... ted_States

"The differences between the two is that social democrats support social democratic positions as practical reforms within and to capitalism and as an end in itself whereas democratic socialists ultimately want to go beyond social democratic reform and capitalism and advocate systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism."

TL;DR: Democratic Socialists are Socialists and have pure Socialism as their end-goal, and Social Democrats aren't and don't.

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mr_bigmouth_502
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23 May 2019, 7:19 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Democratic socialism, social democracy, what's the f*****g difference?

I'm not sure which one I'd be then. I'd like to see the abolishment of capitalism, yet at the same time I recognize the alternative doesn't really work due to human nature.

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Mikah
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23 May 2019, 3:03 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I'm not sure which one I'd be then. I'd like to see the abolishment of capitalism, yet at the same time I recognize the alternative doesn't really work due to human nature.

To steal and butcher a phrase, capitalism is the worst system in the world...

... except for all the others.

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