The confounding subtleties of the English language.

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JustFoundHere
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23 May 2019, 3:55 am

Wasn't sure where to post this. 'The General Autism Discussion' was an alternate choice.

Sometimes the subtleties of the English language can give us "a hard time" esp. with difficulties in understanding, and navigating social landscapes.

It's refreshing to find words in other languages which seem to do a better job than the English language in defining those elusive concepts. After awhile, defining those well........hard to define concepts in the English language becomes a seemingly increasingly futile exercise of semantic gymnastics.

It's believed that understanding other languages is important to developing critical thinking skills; which may in some small ways boost social skills. "Talk about conversation topics which may 'break the ice!'"

Enclosed are a small list of words:

* Honne and Tatemae are Japanese words (nouns) that describe the contrast between a person's true feelings and desires and the behavior and opinions one displays in public.

* Mamihlapinatapai (Noun) Yaghan (language spoken on the tip of S. America) : Supposedly means to "a look shared by two people, each wishing that the other would initiate something that they both desire but which neither wants to begin. Further details (short length read): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamihlapinatapai

* Uitwaaien: (Verb) Dutch: A time-out from the demands of life to clear one's mind.

* Nazlanmak (Verb) Turkish: Faking reluctance or indifference when you actually feeling confident.

Examples taken from the book: 'Other Wordly.'



breaks0
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25 May 2019, 8:10 pm

Thanks for the share. Are you a linguist or something?



JustFoundHere
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25 May 2019, 10:16 pm

breaks0 wrote:
Thanks for the share. Are you a linguist or something?


Just a strong language aptitude; which is important in my work as an information/data analyst. I never considered being a linguist!

Foreign language words that make their way into wider usage in the English language are often words that are memorable........with English speakers. These foreign words often get into wider English language usage; because English words/meanings alone cannot always grasp those important nuances/interpretations.

In short, the English language needs to incorporate even more of those important foreign words!

The word 'Zen' comes to mind. A 'Zen' "state of mind" might be helpful in handling, and even better understanding the Autism spectrum!

Brief description on Zen: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zen



breaks0
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25 May 2019, 11:30 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
breaks0 wrote:
Thanks for the share. Are you a linguist or something?


Just a strong language aptitude; which is important in my work as an information/data analyst. I never considered being a linguist!

Foreign language words that make their way into wider usage in the English language are often words that are memorable........with English speakers. These foreign words often get into wider English language usage; because English words/meanings alone cannot always grasp those important nuances/interpretations.

In short, the English language needs to incorporate even more of those important foreign words!

The word 'Zen' comes to mind. A 'Zen' "state of mind" might be helpful in handling, and even better understanding the Autism spectrum!

Brief description on Zen: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zen

I know what Zen is. I was an East Asian Studies major in college.

So do you speak any other languages and if so which ones?



JustFoundHere
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26 May 2019, 12:59 pm

breaks0 wrote:
JustFoundHere wrote:
breaks0 wrote:
Thanks for the share. Are you a linguist or something?


Just a strong language aptitude; which is important in my work as an information/data analyst. I never considered being a linguist!

Foreign language words that make their way into wider usage in the English language are often words that are memorable........with English speakers. These foreign words often get into wider English language usage; because English words/meanings alone cannot always grasp those important nuances/interpretations.

In short, the English language needs to incorporate even more of those important foreign words!

The word 'Zen' comes to mind. A 'Zen' "state of mind" might be helpful in handling, and even better understanding the Autism spectrum!

Brief description on Zen: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zen

I know what Zen is. I was an East Asian Studies major in college.

So do you speak any other languages and if so which ones?


I don't speak other languages. I once had an interest in Latin and Esperanto. Presently, I have a knack for wordplay (in English).

As mentioned, the English language alone is enough of a challenge; hence if words in other languages boost meanings/understandings (where the English language fails), these words deserve reconsideration for wider usage.

To reclaim the purpose of why I placed this discussion in the 'Social Skills and Making Friends' Forum, the Korean term 'Nunchi' (LINK) applies. 'Nunchi' describes sensing "non verbal" cues in others; that is a verrry important esp. with the Autism spectrum!

(LINK) Nunchi (noun) Korean
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunchi



breaks0
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27 May 2019, 4:37 pm

Agreed w/you about the English language being enough of a challenge. I think that along w/our crazy grammar and spelling rules all of it makes English hard for native speakers of other languages (not sure about native speakers of other Germanic languages but certainly for those who speak others Indo-European ones or from other language families). It's basically been the global lingua franca for at least a couple centuries due to UK and then American imperial dominance including culturally. And as a result what you speak about about absorbing foreign loan words well it already does alot of that obviously. 40% or more of word are French or Latin-derived and obviously there are a whole host of other foreign influences as well. So it's quite polyglot language. And most speakers of foreign languages I've ever met have a hard time w/it. By contrast in my experience romance languages at least are much more straight forward logical and to my ears beautiful (even just to listen to). But that's just a personal preference.

So you studied Esperanto and Latin. I know very little about the former but everything I've heard is that it's a very cool one and fairly easy since it's a romantic language and has very logical grammar etc no? I became the best Latin student in my secondary school by 10th grade after we read Virgil and then Cicero. Perhaps I should've continued studying it but I got into French for the rest of high school and my first trip abroad was to a Francophone African country (though in retrospect I should've gone to France). I took Chinese in college b/c I of my major and I still know a little but I was never very good at it. This is getting harder to achieve as I age but I'd still very much like to get proficient or fluent in Chinese Spanish (hopefully Portuguese too) and Hindi.



JustFoundHere
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28 May 2019, 1:09 pm

Thank-you for your responses 'breaks0'.

I had placed this discussion thread in the 'Social Skills & Making Friends' Forum to point-out those foreign-language words describing social skills important for boosting social-skills for people with HFA.

Can foreign language words describing social-skills provide renewed perspectives which might be helpful with HFA? From my own personal experience, I'm keen on insights that look at old issues/concerns in new ways.

Not directly related to this thread; I feel that creative-writing (including experiences of...........posting here on WP) might be act as an "ice breaker of sorts" which (like interpreting these cool foreign language words) might just yield that critical thinking which might (albeit in humble ways) prove helpful in HFA social skills!



JustFoundHere
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17 Aug 2019, 1:11 pm

Updating this thread.

What non-English word describes the opposite of the Turkish language verb 'Nazlanmak' that means: Faking reluctance or indifference when you actually feeling confident?

The opposite of 'Nazlanmak' presents presents social difficulties regarding the Autism Spectrum; that is faking confidence when truly feeling reluctant, and indifferent.

Lately, I've felt that misunderstandings relating to language are one factor in discouraging friendships. Misunderstandings relating the the subtleties of the English-language sometimes present difficulties here on WP.

Whether or not being aware of important words in non-English languages can boost that very critical-thinking important to social-skills is up for debate - hence 'The Confounding Subtleties of the English Language' is an important topic to reassess again, and again.......... for the first time!



JustFoundHere
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10 Sep 2019, 1:00 pm

The Japanese term 'Hikikomori' (LINK) is applied to describe social isolation which can stem from the Autism Spectrum:

(LINK) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori



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12 Mar 2022, 3:32 pm

Bumping-up an old discussion thread I had initiated.

The French term 'faux pas' is of interest amongst English speakers. After viewing several French to English translations of the term 'faux pas,' I sensed the term 'faux pas' invited thoughtful (even helpful) distinctions of social etiquette errors common with both people on the Autism Spectrum, and NTs.

Attempting to make such distinctions with the English language alone too often invites confusion, ensuing arguments, and even hard-feelings.



funeralxempire
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12 Mar 2022, 3:37 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
The Japanese term 'Hikikomori' (LINK) is applied to describe social isolation which can stem from the Autism Spectrum:

(LINK) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori


I'd suggest more precisely it describes the way undiagnosed ASD and autistic burnout present within that cultural context.


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JustFoundHere
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12 Mar 2022, 7:04 pm

Glad the term 'Hikikomori' has been mentioned periodically here on WP!



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12 Mar 2022, 7:49 pm

Experience tells me it's not just English.

I believe all languages have it's own limitations. And searches tells me many wordsmiths and polyglots confirms it.

From vocabulary, to technicalities of writing and it's writing systems, to certain structures of thought translated to sentences.

The social contexts of languages are due to proximity.
Subtexts is more to do with cultural mores and social situations, not really dependent on language.


I myself is just someone who happened to reside away from the west.
And at least a bilingual of two languages with almost had no similarities to one another, only some parallel counterparts or versions of itself. Also few loan words here and there, but most languages do.

... And an autistic whose weakness is language aptitude.
Which forced me to think other ways around learning and using language because languages itself just feels unnatural to me. :lol:

Whether it's a layperson way of saying words on the streets, ways how one works in semiformal workplace, or being formal in either languages.


But yes. :lol:
I always notice limitations of English that my native tongue do not have.
The same with the other way around.

And countless terms and concepts I heard and read outside those two languages.


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Last edited by Edna3362 on 12 Mar 2022, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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12 Mar 2022, 7:59 pm

There was a best selling book you would see at Borders and Barnes and Noble entitled "They Have a Word For It" about words in other languages that dont exist in English. Would leaf through it.

But English has words for things that other languages lack, but could use. Every language has "lexical gaps".



turnleftaticela
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12 Mar 2022, 8:18 pm

Ooooh, I love this concept.

Reminds me of some of the stuff on https://www.dictionaryofobscuresorrows.com. They’re mostly made-up based on various words from various languages, rather than taken directly from other languages, but hey, that’s how language happens, right? And I think it’s nice to have terms for these experiences, anyway.

A few examples that I think fit the autistic experience nicely:

Quote:
agnosthesia
n. the state of not knowing how you really feel about something, which forces you to sift through clues hidden in your behavior, as if you were some other person—noticing a twist of acid in your voice, an obscene amount of effort put into something trifling, or an inexplicable weight on your shoulders that makes it difficult to get out of bed.

Quote:
midding
v. intr. feeling the tranquil pleasure of being near a gathering but not quite in it—hovering on the perimeter of a campfire, chatting outside a party while others dance inside, resting your head in the backseat of a car listening to your friends chatting up front—feeling blissfully invisible yet still fully included, safe in the knowledge that everyone is together and everyone is okay, with all the thrill of being there without the burden of having to be.

Quote:
pâro
n. the feeling that no matter what you do is always somehow wrong—that any attempt to make your way comfortably through the world will only end up crossing some invisible taboo—as if there’s some obvious way forward that everybody else can see but you, each of them leaning back in their chair and calling out helpfully, colder, colder, colder.

Quote:
flashover
n. the moment a conversation becomes real and alive, which occurs when a spark of trust shorts out the delicate circuits you keep insulated under layers of irony, momentarily grounding the static emotional charge you’ve built up through decades of friction with the world.

^me when someone lets me infodump lol
Quote:
exulansis
n. the tendency to give up trying to talk about an experience because people are unable to relate to it—whether through envy or pity or simple foreignness—which allows it to drift away from the rest of your life story, until the memory itself feels out of place, almost mythical, wandering restlessly in the fog, no longer even looking for a place to land.

^o u c h
That one HURTS
Quote:
opia
n. the ambiguous intensity of looking someone in the eye, which can feel simultaneously invasive and vulnerable—their pupils glittering, bottomless and opaque—as if you were peering through a hole in the door of a house, able to tell that there’s someone standing there, but unable to tell if you’re looking in or looking out.

^DANG
There’s like no way the person who made this blog isn’t autistic lol
Quote:
adronitis
n. frustration with how long it takes to get to know someone—spending the first few weeks chatting in their psychological entryway, with each subsequent conversation like entering a different anteroom, each a little closer to the center of the house—wishing instead that you could start there and work your way out, exchanging your deepest secrets first, before easing into casualness, until you’ve built up enough mystery over the years to ask them where they’re from, and what they do for a living.

^I love that one lol
Quote:
monachopsis
n. the subtle but persistent feeling of being out of place, as maladapted to your surroundings as a seal on a beach—lumbering, clumsy, easily distracted, huddled in the company of other misfits, unable to recognize the ambient roar of your intended habitat, in which you’d be fluidly, brilliantly, effortlessly at home.

Quote:
semaphorism
n. a conversational hint that you have something personal to say on the subject but don’t go any further—an emphatic nod, a half-told anecdote, an enigmatic ‘I know the feeling'—which you place into conversations like those little flags that warn diggers of something buried underground: maybe a cable that secretly powers your house, maybe a fiberoptic link to some foreign country.

Quote:
jouska
n. a hypothetical conversation that you compulsively play out in your head—a crisp analysis, a cathartic dialogue, a devastating comeback—which serves as a kind of psychological batting cage where you can connect more deeply with people than in the small ball of everyday life, which is a frustratingly cautious game of change-up pitches, sacrifice bunts, and intentional walks.

Quote:
slipcast
n. the default expression that your face automatically reverts to when idle—amused, melancholic, pissed off—which occurs when a strong emotion gets buried and forgotten in the psychological laundry of everyday life, leaving you wearing an unintentional vibe of pink or blue or gray, or in rare cases, a tie-dye of sheer madness.

Ok I gotta stop because I’m on page 14 of 119 lmaooooo but I think you get the idea


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12 Mar 2022, 9:36 pm

Interesting stuff here, thanks!


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