Neurotypical (NT) feedback requested!

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JustFoundHere
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27 May 2019, 2:43 am

I'm not quite sure where this thread (that I began) is going! How does the 'What Would Make This Feel Like the Right Planet For You?' thread fit into this thread?

For those who have posted in this thread, any further perspectives? I also encourage new posters to this thread!



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27 May 2019, 6:23 am

Pepe wrote:
Jon81 wrote:
I sense a lot of bitterness towards NT people on this board from AS people who have a hard time interacting socially.


"Bitter"? Debatable.
NTs are often difficult people.
The intelligent ones not so much.

So many lies.
So emotional.
Often condescending.
So much ignorance about us naughty auties. :wink:
And they get offended so easily. <sigh>

Mona Pereth wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
I am NT and fairly new here.

However, in the thread What would make this feel like the "right planet" for you?, you wrote:

Teach51 wrote:
I have ADD

So you're not quite NT, as that term is used these days. The word "neurotypical" has come to refer to people who not only are non-autistic but also do not have any other developmental disability either. You're not autistic, but you are neurodivergent.

These days, the non-negative term for all non-autistic people is "allistic." So you are allistic but not NT.


Hmm.
You seem to have wisdom.
You are on my radar now. :wink:



Mona is the wisest of the wise, seriously.
Allistic, there you go :D I feel quite liberated!


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27 May 2019, 6:29 am

Teach51 wrote:
JustFoundHere wrote:
I sense that impartial feedback (from thoughtful NTs) might just offer that boost (nudge) to encourage people on the Autism Spectrum to "step out of their comfort zones."

There are discussion threads here on WrongPlanet (WP) on developing/maintaining friendships with NTs who've had some (yet not too much) experience with the Autism Spectrum. The potential of such friendships offers encouragement to............."step out of our comfort zones!"



Hi JustFoundHere I am NT and fairly new here. I feel a bit uncomfortable and not sure if I am being helpful with my interactions here. I have friends on the spectrum and I am mainly here to learn. Happy to help any way that I may. Not sure it will be useful :D


I find you very helpful and a blessing.


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Mona Pereth
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27 May 2019, 7:32 am

JustFoundHere wrote:
I'm not quite sure where this thread (that I began) is going! How does the 'What Would Make This Feel Like the Right Planet For You?' thread fit into this thread?

I was just pointing out to Teach51 that she said, in that other thread, that she had ADD, whereas, here in this thread, she said she was NT.

The term "NT" has evolved in meaning. When it was originally coined by the first autistic rights activists, "NT" meant "non-autistic." Since then the term "NT" has evolved to refer a person without ANY developmental disability, so a person with ADHD would not be NT.

When you began this thread, did you mean to ask for feedback from allistics (non-autistics) of ALL kinds, including allistics with ADHD, learning disabilities, etc.? Or did you mean to ask for feedback only from NT's in the newer, stricter sense of that term (people without ANY developmental disabilities)?


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27 May 2019, 8:00 am

I find the whole "NT" clarification to be a rather subjective generalization in most cases.

One certainly doesn't have to have autism to not fit in, be socially inept, an outcast, a misfit, be bullied etc.



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27 May 2019, 8:34 am

Teach51 wrote:
You have a point that NT's have an advantage, just the fact that there are different senses of humour and cultural differences, for someone who has difficulty interpreting body language, inference and nuances it must be absolutely bewildering.

Explain to me how it feels and any strategies that help you please.

The most frustrating thing is people being impatient with me for not understanding stuff that's obvious to them. I've learned to avoid this to a large extent by:

1) Living in a highly multi-cultural neighborhood with no one dominant ethnic group. Here, people expect to have to put some work into understanding each other. This puts me on a more equal footing, at least when talking to people one-on-one.

2) When I was in my 20's to 40's, being involved in various oddball subcultures, where there was much more acceptance of human variety than there is in mainstream culture. In some cases there was also a strong ethic of clear communication rather than relying on subtle hints.

In short, I've managed to find environments that were relatively autistic-friendly, although the idea of "autism" per se wasn't on anyone's radar.


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27 May 2019, 8:49 am

This is interesting, I am learning loads from this thread. This happens a lot on WP. What suddenly made this chat combative, perhaps confrontational and slightly antagonistic, at least from my point of view as a non-autistic with excellent social skills? Who would like to have a go at analysing what happened? This is a good experiment :idea:


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27 May 2019, 1:07 pm

It's good that this has become a robust discussion thread.

Yet, it's necessary to reclaim, and refocus on the purpose of this thread; by incorporating those tangible resources concerned with High Functioning Autism (HFA).

For starters, anybody familiar with HFA awareness/experiences in the SF Bay Area, the Portland OR, and Seattle Regions? Portland seems to have those quirky qualities which can be of HFA interest. Personally, I'm about three-hours drive from the SF Bay Area, and naturally, I've been investigating resources in the SF Region.

In regards to the more, or less formal resources, even West-Coast regions "ahead of the curve" so to speak on HFA awareness must look to AANE - the Asperger/Autism Network (in the Boston area) regarding best-practices on specific resources serving people with HFA. By signing-up for the AANE mailing-list, AANE will send info. on what seems like well thought-out support resources.

Whatever shapes awareness, experiences, friendships, formal or informal helpful to HFA, let's remember that awesome, and thoughtful NTs are involved side-by-side with people living with HFA. Hence, please refrain from being too quick to express bitterness with NTs; as we might just be lumping those thoughtful, trustworthy NTs concerned with HFA in our bitterness.

The adages "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" and "let's not cut-off the nose in spite of the face" are worth instilling!



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27 May 2019, 1:57 pm

Teach51 wrote:
This is interesting, I am learning loads from this thread. This happens a lot on WP. What suddenly made this chat combative, perhaps confrontational and slightly antagonistic, at least from my point of view as a non-autistic with excellent social skills? Who would like to have a go at analysing what happened? This is a good experiment :idea:

Which specific statements, by which specific people, seemed to you to be combative or antagonistic? Did you feel any hostility towards yourself personally, or just between other people in the thread?

Personally I saw some confusion about and mild disagreement with a couple of posts of mine, but, as far as I can tell, no outright hostility. Also I would guess that JustFoundHere was hoping for more NT's/allistics to post in this thread, and perhaps felt that his thread was being derailed a bit.

I hope that neither my posts on terminology nor my responses to your posts were in any way offensive to you.


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27 May 2019, 4:13 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
This is interesting, I am learning loads from this thread. This happens a lot on WP. What suddenly made this chat combative, perhaps confrontational and slightly antagonistic, at least from my point of view as a non-autistic with excellent social skills? Who would like to have a go at analysing what happened? This is a good experiment :idea:

Which specific statements, by which specific people, seemed to you to be combative or antagonistic? Did you feel any hostility towards yourself personally, or just between other people in the thread?

Personally I saw some confusion about and mild disagreement with a couple of posts of mine, but, as far as I can tell, no outright hostility. Also I would guess that JustFoundHere was hoping for more NT's/allistics to post in this thread, and perhaps felt that his thread was being derailed a bit.

I hope that neither my posts on terminology nor my responses to your posts were in any way offensive to you.



Nothing was offensive to me at all, I really enjoy your posts. The necessity to have the precise information and correct any inaccuracies is something I am familiar with.
What I have no experience with, is aspie to aspie communication. When I am teaching aspies, or with my aspie friends or aspie lover to a certain extent, communication seems to flow more harmoniously to me, now I realise that they are molding themseves to suit me for my benefit rather than me adapting for them. What do I mean? With my students, I know that they are trying to emulate what they presume I expect. I see them begin a response, rethink, then respond. They don't tell me I am wrong or correct me when we are discussing things in general that are unrelated to the lesson. There is a great awareness of their ability to change the mood from friendly to hostile in a flash but they refrain. They like me very much and feel open to ask questions about things that they are dealing with and finding difficult, They are very acquiescent and careful not to offend.
I control the environment and they adjust to it.

I apologise for the disorder of this post, but I do not have an orderly thought process so bear with me.

Now my with my lover there is more of a sense of freedom of expression ( obviously) and the conversation is more intimate and robust, but again he struggles to express anything emotional or comprehend my reactions, and we have to tell each other explicitly if we are angry or what's amusing( he has a short temper) and I feel as though he cannot see me at all. The whole construct of his conversation is alien to me. For example I was sick last week. When I was better he was visiting and asked me if I had had a good day. I replied that it had been especially good because I no longer had stomach ache, because I had been really sick. The "really sick" being added for dramatic effect to emphasise the contrast of how good I feel now.
This was received with a superior sort of dismissal and he replied: "I know you were sick, you told me. Him totally missing the embellishment for dramatic effect and me left feeling inferior and idiotic. He of course being an aspie remembers every detail told to him ( or so he says) and the allistics and NT's I speak to never seem to remember anything.

Here on WP I have noticed that you engage each other in a different way. There is an abundance of relevant, accurate info, and whilst engaging in discourse you add facts and more relevant data and links and references and it is intimidating to a degree because quite honestly it makes me feel stupid. I am not a typical example because I have ADD, but I am assuming that NT's would not take kindly to interjections and corrections which to me seems obsessive and arrogant.
I am beginning to fathom that it is not the aspies desire to win the debate or negate me but rather a deep respect and dedication to accuracy and for fact. These are not important to me at all in a conversation,( horrendous I know) I care about closeness, intimacy, sharing of information at an emotional level to break out of the encapsulation of self that separates human beings. That is my primary objective in social situations. The sharing of info is my secondary objective. When my guy ignores the emotional aspect of my words in favour of accuracy of content I feel annulled and silenced.

I have the same experience on this forum, but to a lesser extent of course.Here I have to conform to your zone, I cannot compete, I can only be accepted for who I am. I cannot think so deeply nor retain vast amounts of data efficiently,
I am a creature of emotion. The sense is that if I throw out a thought to some aspies it is thrown back as defective. This was where Mona's correct observation about me not being an NT irked me. I was grateful for this realisation.This deeply disturbs me with my aspie guy as the conversation always gets derailed and never flows harmoniously. I am here to learn tools in order to connect with him and my aspie friends on middle ground. Does any of this make sense?


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27 May 2019, 4:36 pm

Teach51 wrote:
You have a point that NT's have an advantage, just the fact that there are different senses of humour and cultural differences, for someone who has difficulty interpreting body language, inference and nuances it must be absolutely bewildering.

Explain to me how it feels and any strategies that help you please.

To clarify my previous reply to the above:

For me as an autistic person, glaringly obvious cultural differences can actually make things easier, not harder. With some exceptions, the people I have the greatest difficulty getting along with tend to be people of similar cultural background, because they expect me to be able to relate to them a lot better than I actually can. Immigrants from very different cultures tend to be more patient with me. I tend to get along best with people (immigrants or native-born) who, for whatever reason, don't feel entitled to be instantly understood by me, and who are willing to put some effort into communicating with me.


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27 May 2019, 4:52 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
You have a point that NT's have an advantage, just the fact that there are different senses of humour and cultural differences, for someone who has difficulty interpreting body language, inference and nuances it must be absolutely bewildering.

Explain to me how it feels and any strategies that help you please.

To clarify my previous reply to the above:

For me as an autistic person, glaringly obvious cultural differences can actually make things easier, not harder. With some exceptions, the people I have the greatest difficulty getting along with tend to be people of similar cultural background, because they expect me to be able to relate to them a lot better than I actually can. Immigrants from very different cultures tend to be more patient with me. I tend to get along best with people (immigrants or native-born) who, for whatever reason, don't feel entitled to be instantly understood by me, and who are willing to put some effort into communicating with me.



That actually makes sense to me


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27 May 2019, 5:27 pm

Teach51 wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
This is interesting, I am learning loads from this thread. This happens a lot on WP. What suddenly made this chat combative, perhaps confrontational and slightly antagonistic, at least from my point of view as a non-autistic with excellent social skills? Who would like to have a go at analysing what happened? This is a good experiment :idea:

Which specific statements, by which specific people, seemed to you to be combative or antagonistic? Did you feel any hostility towards yourself personally, or just between other people in the thread?

Personally I saw some confusion about and mild disagreement with a couple of posts of mine, but, as far as I can tell, no outright hostility. Also I would guess that JustFoundHere was hoping for more NT's/allistics to post in this thread, and perhaps felt that his thread was being derailed a bit.



I hope that neither my posts on terminology nor my responses to your posts were in any way offensive to you.



Nothing was offensive to me at all, I really enjoy your posts. The necessity to have the precise information and correct any inaccuracies is something I am familiar with.
What I have no experience with, is aspie to aspie communication. When I am teaching aspies, or with my aspie friends or aspie lover to a certain extent, communication seems to flow more harmoniously to me, now I realise that they are molding themseves to suit me for my benefit rather than me adapting for them. What do I mean? With my students, I know that they are trying to emulate what they presume I expect. I see them begin a response, rethink, then respond. They don't tell me I am wrong or correct me when we are discussing things in general that are unrelated to the lesson. There is a great awareness of their ability to change the mood from friendly to hostile in a flash but they refrain. They like me very much and feel open to ask questions about things that they are dealing with and finding difficult, They are very acquiescent and careful not to offend.
I control the environment and they adjust to it.

I apologise for the disorder of this post, but I do not have an orderly thought process so bear with me.

Now my with my lover there is more of a sense of freedom of expression ( obviously) and the conversation is more intimate and robust, but again he struggles to express anything emotional or comprehend my reactions, and we have to tell each other explicitly if we are angry or what's amusing( he has a short temper) and I feel as though he cannot see me at all. The whole construct of his conversation is alien to me. For example I was sick last week. When I was better he was visiting and asked me if I had had a good day. I replied that it had been especially good because I no longer had stomach ache, because I had been really sick. The "really sick" being added for dramatic effect to emphasise the contrast of how good I feel now.
This was received with a superior sort of dismissal and he replied: "I know you were sick, you told me. Him totally missing the embellishment for dramatic effect and me left feeling inferior and idiotic. He of course being an aspie remembers every detail told to him ( or so he says) and the allistics and NT's I speak to never seem to remember anything.

Here on WP I have noticed that you engage each other in a different way. There is an abundance of relevant, accurate info, and whilst engaging in discourse you add facts and more relevant data and links and references and it is intimidating to a degree because quite honestly it makes me feel stupid. I am not a typical example because I have ADD, but I am assuming that NT's would not take kindly to interjections and corrections which to me seems obsessive and arrogant.
I am beginning to fathom that it is not the aspies desire to win the debate or negate me but rather a deep respect and dedication to accuracy and for fact. These are not important to me at all in a conversation,( horrendous I know) I care about closeness, intimacy, sharing of information at an emotional level to break out of the encapsulation of self that separates human beings. That is my primary objective in social situations. The sharing of info is my secondary objective. When my guy ignores the emotional aspect of my words in favour of accuracy of content I feel annulled and silenced.

I have the same experience on this forum, but to a lesser extent of course.Here I have to conform to your zone, I cannot compete, I can only be accepted for who I am. I cannot think so deeply nor retain vast amounts of data efficiently,
I am a creature of emotion. The sense is that if I throw out a thought to some aspies it is thrown back as defective. This was where Mona's correct observation about me not being an NT irked me. I was grateful for this realisation.This deeply disturbs me with my aspie guy as the conversation always gets derailed and never flows harmoniously. I am here to learn tools in order to connect with him and my aspie friends on middle ground. Does any of this make sense?


Ohhhh yes, I've been (and still are) criticized for being too wordy, and speaking in ways that leave people feeling dumb; on account of that hyper-focus on sometimes esoteric content. I certainly acknowledge that WP (and this discussion thread) presents sentiments of confusion, depression, and hard feelings.

The purpose of this discussion thread is to encourage positive sentiments, experiences, strategies, etc. I'm anticipating that my posts will get 'QUOTED' - as I cannot be the only one here on WP to seriously consider just how to make NT/HFA relationships successful!

Where are you from? What is the overall awareness regarding what's helpful for adults with HFA?



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27 May 2019, 5:41 pm

Teach51 wrote:
What suddenly made this chat combative, perhaps confrontational and slightly antagonistic, at least from my point of view as a non-autistic with excellent social skills? Who would like to have a go at analysing what happened? This is a good experiment :idea:

Youl find kind of bitterness because many autistic people experienced lots of bullying, verbal problems or don't understand nonverbal things in speech and body language. Many autist dont get other people emotionally. That's why they may act a bit rude sometimes and often aren't really well liked for this. Because of this and because of their low self-esteem they often become a target of bullying. I'm a little bit between the worlds but for sure a lot stranger than most people.
Teach51 wrote:
I am here to learn tools in order to connect with him and my aspie friends on middle ground. Does any of this make sense?

I think you realized already a big part of the things but there is more. It depends on the people but many people who have a classic Asperger's syndrome aren't as emotional as common people. It's kind of an emotional shutdown. For this they often don't understand the emotions and feelings of other people and are more interested in facts then in transferring of emotions. I myself didn't even had a clue that empathy is a real thing and means more than just compassion. :mrgreen: For this don't expect him to realize you want him to hold you or to realize your feelings. Just get in touch to him as soon as you need affection and talk to him about this stuff. I think that you'll both win once you learn to understand each other a little better.


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27 May 2019, 6:03 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
Where are you from? What is the overall awareness regarding what's helpful for adults with HFA?

Stop this! She has an relationship to a guy on the spectrum and wants to understand the ways that he is. And she is nice and honest enough to tell about herself and the way that most NT women feel especially towards guys who lack deep empathy:
Teach51 wrote:
I feel as though he cannot see me at all. The whole construct of his conversation is alien to me. ... I am beginning to fathom that it is not the aspies desire to win the debate or negate me but rather a deep respect and dedication to accuracy and for fact. These are not important to me at all in a conversation,( horrendous I know) I care about closeness, intimacy, sharing of information at an emotional level to break out of the encapsulation of self that separates human beings. That is my primary objective in social situations. The sharing of info is my secondary objective. When my guy ignores the emotional aspect of my words in favour of accuracy of content I feel annulled and silenced.

Hey Teach! Best is to tell him and to teach him this. He's not an idiot just kind of emotional blind without even realizing it. :wink:


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Last edited by quite an extreme on 27 May 2019, 6:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.