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eilishbillie987
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01 Jun 2019, 4:43 pm

democracy in america is finally achieved when we realize our elites are finally as smart as we are.



eilishbillie987
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01 Jun 2019, 6:04 pm

shlaifu wrote:
ollychan wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
ollychan wrote:
)2 hes saying even with the most transparent form of democracy you still can't prevent such dystopia from happening ?


Yes, because he sees it as an issue of technology, and the form of government is embedded in this. So if technology leads to dystopia, one can't stop it from within technology. Hell, democracy as we have it now is embedded in globsl capitalism, and it's somewhat powerless against that, - however, capitalism isn't the underlying driving force (which is why leftism doesn't work either), but technological progress.

It should be noted that the guy has a very radical conception of freedom.
And he doesn't consider a star trek post scarcity society as a possible outcome.



democracy where? all we see is a world where ms yellen no longer understand economics [and probably never did], mr soros no longer understand philosophy [and probably never did], and mrs clinton no longer understands politics [and probably never did], in addition to ms feinstein "STEM = climate science only climate science" and mr mccain "im bad at math but Hyperloop looked flashy enuff" yet they want to be the so called safe guardians of the entire humanity .. do they know what they will look like in 2100 ? ...


so ... let's not digress to the state of "democracy" now, let's just say that things are in shambles - but yeah, so even the most transparent form of democracy would succumb to technology, unless tere was aquasi-religious value tat forbids technological advances, for all societies. otherwise, the onesthat do not forbid themselves newtech will colonize the rest, like britain did with china in the 19th century.
now china is catching up so it cannot becolonized again, and so forth.



And if democracy doesnt work, why should other countries adopt democracy? If moderates say we have to do it slow, why cany other countries do it slow?



shlaifu
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01 Jun 2019, 7:58 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
I have to say that the Unibombers manifesto (given on a link on the original post) has to be one of the hardest to read documents that i have ever read.

It is a shame that this guy came to such conclusions. I do not doubt the guys intelligence.
Although can't say that i agree with much in his manifesto.

Shame he couldn't have invested in a ticket to a remote island or something, where he could have started his own experiment in started society a fresh under his own guidance, ideally on his own.

Bombing people, especially people who you don't even know has to be one of the craziest things that any one can do, and what can someone possibly achieve with such a bizarre strategy. Well, he got fame, if that was his goal, but can't say for the right reason.


It wasn't his goal. It appears, according to the text, his goal was to get the manifesto published in the washington post. I mean... It doesn't exactly read like the writing of a madman obsessed with getting famous.
He writes that this was a necessary strategy to get attention for the text, and that was certainly somewhat successful, although it didn't get the attention it deserved and he wanted. Although. I'm not sure.
The text is so radical and ambiguous that bombing people seems like an apt way to express the content.

Regarding your other post, that we should educate our children better: sure, but how?
I mean, Kaczynski writes, correctly, that technology provides an advantage for the person developing it which allows him to take over the one refusing (on ethical or other grounds) to develop it.
So, to prevent being taken over by a 'barabarian', one has to get ahead of him, technologically.

There's an interesting bit in the history of the Peloponnesian war: the island of melos tried to stay neutral, but the athenians couldn't risk it falling into the hands of the Spartans.
So they besieged it and negotiated with the melians. The melians tried to convince the athenians with ethical arguments to back off. But the atenians countered with strategic arguments. Pragmatics of warfare.
The athenians slaughtered all melian men and sold women and children into slavery.
It went down in history as a battle between the rationale of military necessity versus moral philosophy - and the moral philosophers lost.

Calling for better education, ethics, etc. Is trying to argue from moral philosophy, ignoring the rationale of military necessity.

And then,your arms race ensues and your population needs to be put to production to advance that arms race. Hence the spiralling towards a brave new world.

The post-scarcity paradise and the Elysium scenario (as in the film - what you describe as dictatorship by an Uber-elite) seem like the only ways out. But, once the machines work for themselves and advance technology and science themselves, what's the aim for humans? What's the unfolding of human potential, when machines outperform humans in every way?
It will make zoo animals of us, even if it decides to take care of us indefinitely.
That's what kaczynski means when he writes that it'll rob us of any dignity etc. ...


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eilishbillie987
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02 Jun 2019, 7:18 am

shlaifu wrote:
madbutnotmad wrote:
I have to say that the Unibombers manifesto (given on a link on the original post) has to be one of the hardest to read documents that i have ever read.

It is a shame that this guy came to such conclusions. I do not doubt the guys intelligence.
Although can't say that i agree with much in his manifesto.

Shame he couldn't have invested in a ticket to a remote island or something, where he could have started his own experiment in started society a fresh under his own guidance, ideally on his own.

Bombing people, especially people who you don't even know has to be one of the craziest things that any one can do, and what can someone possibly achieve with such a bizarre strategy. Well, he got fame, if that was his goal, but can't say for the right reason.


It wasn't his goal. It appears, according to the text, his goal was to get the manifesto published in the washington post. I mean... It doesn't exactly read like the writing of a madman obsessed with getting famous.
He writes that this was a necessary strategy to get attention for the text, and that was certainly somewhat successful, although it didn't get the attention it deserved and he wanted. Although. I'm not sure.
The text is so radical and ambiguous that bombing people seems like an apt way to express the content.

Regarding your other post, that we should educate our children better: sure, but how?
I mean, Kaczynski writes, correctly, that technology provides an advantage for the person developing it which allows him to take over the one refusing (on ethical or other grounds) to develop it.
So, to prevent being taken over by a 'barabarian', one has to get ahead of him, technologically.

There's an interesting bit in the history of the Peloponnesian war: the island of melos tried to stay neutral, but the athenians couldn't risk it falling into the hands of the Spartans.
So they besieged it and negotiated with the melians. The melians tried to convince the athenians with ethical arguments to back off. But the atenians countered with strategic arguments. Pragmatics of warfare.
The athenians slaughtered all melian men and sold women and children into slavery.
It went down in history as a battle between the rationale of military necessity versus moral philosophy - and the moral philosophers lost.

Calling for better education, ethics, etc. Is trying to argue from moral philosophy, ignoring the rationale of military necessity.

And then,your arms race ensues and your population needs to be put to production to advance that arms race. Hence the spiralling towards a brave new world.

The post-scarcity paradise and the Elysium scenario (as in the film - what you describe as dictatorship by an Uber-elite) seem like the only ways out. But, once the machines work for themselves and advance technology and science themselves, what's the aim for humans? What's the unfolding of human potential, when machines outperform humans in every way?
It will make zoo animals of us, even if it decides to take care of us indefinitely.
That's what kaczynski means when he writes that it'll rob us of any dignity etc. ...



well u do get the freedom to leave this planet when u chain yourself to the tools ..

we are indeed locked up on this planet by shackles known as gravity and the bars thats known as the atmosphere layers..



eilishbillie987
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02 Jun 2019, 7:32 am

eilishbillie987 wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
madbutnotmad wrote:
I have to say that the Unibombers manifesto (given on a link on the original post) has to be one of the hardest to read documents that i have ever read.

It is a shame that this guy came to such conclusions. I do not doubt the guys intelligence.
Although can't say that i agree with much in his manifesto.

Shame he couldn't have invested in a ticket to a remote island or something, where he could have started his own experiment in started society a fresh under his own guidance, ideally on his own.

Bombing people, especially people who you don't even know has to be one of the craziest things that any one can do, and what can someone possibly achieve with such a bizarre strategy. Well, he got fame, if that was his goal, but can't say for the right reason.


It wasn't his goal. It appears, according to the text, his goal was to get the manifesto published in the washington post. I mean... It doesn't exactly read like the writing of a madman obsessed with getting famous.
He writes that this was a necessary strategy to get attention for the text, and that was certainly somewhat successful, although it didn't get the attention it deserved and he wanted. Although. I'm not sure.
The text is so radical and ambiguous that bombing people seems like an apt way to express the content.

Regarding your other post, that we should educate our children better: sure, but how?
I mean, Kaczynski writes, correctly, that technology provides an advantage for the person developing it which allows him to take over the one refusing (on ethical or other grounds) to develop it.
So, to prevent being taken over by a 'barabarian', one has to get ahead of him, technologically.

There's an interesting bit in the history of the Peloponnesian war: the island of melos tried to stay neutral, but the athenians couldn't risk it falling into the hands of the Spartans.
So they besieged it and negotiated with the melians. The melians tried to convince the athenians with ethical arguments to back off. But the atenians countered with strategic arguments. Pragmatics of warfare.
The athenians slaughtered all melian men and sold women and children into slavery.
It went down in history as a battle between the rationale of military necessity versus moral philosophy - and the moral philosophers lost.

Calling for better education, ethics, etc. Is trying to argue from moral philosophy, ignoring the rationale of military necessity.

And then,your arms race ensues and your population needs to be put to production to advance that arms race. Hence the spiralling towards a brave new world.

The post-scarcity paradise and the Elysium scenario (as in the film - what you describe as dictatorship by an Uber-elite) seem like the only ways out. But, once the machines work for themselves and advance technology and science themselves, what's the aim for humans? What's the unfolding of human potential, when machines outperform humans in every way?
It will make zoo animals of us, even if it decides to take care of us indefinitely.
That's what kaczynski means when he writes that it'll rob us of any dignity etc. ...



well u do get the freedom to leave this planet when u chain yourself to the tools ..

we are indeed locked up on this planet by shackles known as gravity and the bars thats known as the atmosphere layers..



our slow homo brains.. is like naturally deficient .. like natural born limps ..

we are indeed, natural born limps locked up on this planet by shackles such as gravity and bars known as atmosphere layers..



eilishbillie987
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02 Jun 2019, 7:43 am

i think we should invite him on Bill Maher or The View or Russia Today so truth will finally emerge .



fashioondesiigner
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02 Jun 2019, 10:30 am

liberals think very highly of themselves .. they think they are righteous and everyone else is evil .. all of a sudden 86% of them have trouble passing the purity test.



fashioondesiigner
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02 Jun 2019, 10:34 am

I dont know what values conservatives are exactly defending either.



fashioondesiigner
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02 Jun 2019, 10:34 am

All of a sudden politics became entertainment.



shlaifu
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02 Jun 2019, 7:05 pm

This is your third account now, no? What's the idea behind that?


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funeralxempire
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30 Jun 2019, 5:15 pm

eilishbillie987 wrote:
i think we should invite him on Bill Maher or The View or Russia Today so truth will finally emerge .


He might have a hard time attending from his current home.


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01 Jul 2019, 9:59 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts0d_me8JQs

Obviously, to me at least, 'the UniBomber' had High Levels of Mechanical Cognition;
but little to close to no levels of Social Empathic Intelligence otherwise he would understand
that Most Humans will never work like Machines, no matter how bound they are to machines; it's just
Human Nature that would otherwise be Half of Human Nature; Most People are not cut out to be machines and there
is no way most folks will become machines as Senses then Emotions then Reasons come last except for folks now
who may have a Disorder where they cannot fully connect to their Emotions as Obviously the UniBomber then had
no real 'Feeling' Regret for the Killing of Innocent other folks for a Reason Talked Mind over a Soul then with Actual
Emotions Expressing a Spirit of Caring for the Deeper parts of Human Being; Yes, their Emotions as this still 'makes'
the UniBomber's Manifesto 'speak' as a 'Gray text' to read with no Colors of Human Feelings and not even a mention
of the Word 'Love'; A Greatest Human Sensing Feeling Real Inner Healing Force even assessed as such by Science now.

Obviously, he couldn't see the Caring behind giving those 'left' behind the Empathy of a Hand
up as so called Liberal 'Leftists' will do when living in Abundance out of Scarcity as such where the
Disabled Person or 'Two Spirit' Person not so much male or female as one direction serves a vital
Purpose in an Abundant Society with a Loving Touch than one that is in Scarcity With Conservatism wanting to Weed out
the ones without 'Strong Backs' to attain and fight for Basic Tribal Subsistence; Sure, This is Human Nature too and
obviously the Nature of the UniBomber too; as to him Human Life was expendable for Reasons; just for Reasons he
contrived then as he did then and others do now.

Love Will Keep Us together;
No matter machine or barren desert.

Technology Will Be Mastered to give
and share Art and Love in Abundance
moving connecting and co-creating...

or

Technology Will Be A Master to Hoard and Take Stuff With Fear as Misery Loves Suffering as Company
basically sitting behind 'a screen' rotting dead inside as metaphor until folks 'scream' and leave 'a scream' behind...

A Great thing still about Living in the United States where 'Church' is Separated from 'State' in metaphor this way
is one person will Live in Heaven in a Six Foot Space; and the Other Person will Enjoy Hell in the Same Place on Earth.

Obviously,
the UniBomber
was/is missing A
Best part; A Joy of being A Human
Soul the deepest inner parts a Challenge of Dark and the Light of Love in Victory
now overcoming all obstacles like a 6 inch or so Screen that becomes a Love Tool rather than 'Candy Crush'.

Meh; just in my opinion, too:

Generally Speaking, Conservatives Live in Scarcity Where the 'Reptile Brain' takes more of the 'Tribal' control;
Life becomes Cold as Hands and Hearts become Cold with Indifference toward folks not part of 'their tribe' in need.

Generally Speaking, Liberals and so-Called 'Leftists' Live in Abundance, Where the 'Limbic System' Feels Soul for others too not as fortunate where Abundance Rules in Both Subsistence and Soul now real; as Art in moving, connecting, and
co-Creating Ways Will Flourish and Folks will actually fight for the rights of others less fortunate now.

There are more words of Caring Soul with Liberals
and Less Words of Soul for Indifferent Conservatives;
one will empirically measure this in
everyday conversations and text too;
the places with the Least Love Will be inside the Walls of Conservative 'Churches' as metaphor;
the places with the Most Love Will be inside the Walls of Human Souls Freer without restraint who
continue to Live breathe move connect and co-create; being financially independent really helps.

Other than that i live in Heaven and Give and Share it for free and it's really amazing fun every day now.

Other Folks do not dance or sing; i understand more fully the difficulties they continue to 'enjoy' as i too
used to live in 'that place; too.

In 'those days' i was diagnosed
with Autism; in these days the
Current Diagnosis is Greater hued with Beyond Rainbow Color Poetry than Gray Scale Cold Text.

Neuroplasticity and Epigenetics comes in Caring Colors and Gray Scale Cold Text too; depending on what we choose, too.

Technology is Salad Dressing or Salad; 'this' is likely Mostly Word Salad for folks who are stuck in the Salad; as i was too.

'John Nash', Had enough Humility to make it clear that his 'Game Theory' Was flawed as he had little to no Emotional Social Empathic Intelligence; took him a long time to realize it; but Neuroplasticity and Epigenetics allows for 'this' kind change too; as Epiphanies of Soul are Possible too;

Not Likely that either man ever felt the Heaven of a Beautiful Soul with Wings in Flight Beyond all Distance, Space and Time; in other words, not likely they escaped the Prison Locked within their Neo-Cortex so much in the 'other place'.

Extremely High IQ's Like Ted's (the Uni-Bomber's) 167 measures little; very little of the Beyond Infinity numbers of Intelligent Soul Eternally Lit up now; ever expanding in Colors never Viewed Before; like 'the others' are stuck
perpetually in Black and White TV With Only 3 Channels; and only Numbers and Letters that Measure Intelligence now/ then.

I'll end and stArt with this:

Life is Beautiful When
We Sense and FeeL
iT With Eyes And Ears
Awake as Souls Will Do/Be
DanceSonG Vibrates Every
STRinG A SonG oF
mY SoUL
So LiGHT
i Am to Be

i wrote that to a friend
in hopes that one day
She will be able to Dance
And Sing and Fly Higher with me...

And Sure as well i'll add a Dance
And Song up top now from another
Person who relates to this place (LoVESCaPE)
that is as real as any other Intelligence 'test' or MaNiFesto as such.


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