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ollychan
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28 May 2019, 7:29 pm

)2 hes saying even with the most transparent form of democracy you still can't prevent such dystopia from happening ?



Antrax
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28 May 2019, 8:01 pm

Sometimes a great philosopher sums up my thoughts on a topic better than I ever could:

"Predictions are hard especially about the future"-Yogi Berra


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shlaifu
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28 May 2019, 8:16 pm

ollychan wrote:
)2 hes saying even with the most transparent form of democracy you still can't prevent such dystopia from happening ?


Yes, because he sees it as an issue of technology, and the form of government is embedded in this. So if technology leads to dystopia, one can't stop it from within technology. Hell, democracy as we have it now is embedded in globsl capitalism, and it's somewhat powerless against that, - however, capitalism isn't the underlying driving force (which is why leftism doesn't work either), but technological progress.

It should be noted that the guy has a very radical conception of freedom.
And he doesn't consider a star trek post scarcity society as a possible outcome.


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ollychan
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29 May 2019, 8:37 am

shlaifu wrote:
ollychan wrote:
)2 hes saying even with the most transparent form of democracy you still can't prevent such dystopia from happening ?


Yes, because he sees it as an issue of technology, and the form of government is embedded in this. So if technology leads to dystopia, one can't stop it from within technology. Hell, democracy as we have it now is embedded in globsl capitalism, and it's somewhat powerless against that, - however, capitalism isn't the underlying driving force (which is why leftism doesn't work either), but technological progress.

It should be noted that the guy has a very radical conception of freedom.
And he doesn't consider a star trek post scarcity society as a possible outcome.



democracy where? all we see is a world where ms yellen no longer understand economics [and probably never did], mr soros no longer understand philosophy [and probably never did], and mrs clinton no longer understands politics [and probably never did], in addition to ms feinstein "STEM = climate science only climate science" and mr mccain "im bad at math but Hyperloop looked flashy enuff" yet they want to be the so called safe guardians of the entire humanity .. do they know what they will look like in 2100 ? ...



ollychan
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29 May 2019, 8:55 am

ollychan wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
ollychan wrote:
)2 hes saying even with the most transparent form of democracy you still can't prevent such dystopia from happening ?


Yes, because he sees it as an issue of technology, and the form of government is embedded in this. So if technology leads to dystopia, one can't stop it from within technology. Hell, democracy as we have it now is embedded in globsl capitalism, and it's somewhat powerless against that, - however, capitalism isn't the underlying driving force (which is why leftism doesn't work either), but technological progress.

It should be noted that the guy has a very radical conception of freedom.
And he doesn't consider a star trek post scarcity society as a possible outcome.



democracy where? all we see is a world where ms yellen no longer understand economics [and probably never did], mr soros no longer understand philosophy [and probably never did], and mrs clinton no longer understands politics [and probably never did], in addition to ms feinstein "STEM = climate science only climate science" and mr mccain "im bad at math but Hyperloop looked flashy enuff" yet they want to be the so called safe guardians of the entire humanity .. do they know what they will look like in 2100 ? ...



actially im saying even the smartest ppl can err but they are trying to abolish the contest of ideas and to sabotage or abort the truth



obviously they want to abolish the tradition of john stuart mill or contention of a hundred school of thoughts until they couldnt hear anything buttheir own echos .



shlaifu
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29 May 2019, 9:59 am

ollychan wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
ollychan wrote:
)2 hes saying even with the most transparent form of democracy you still can't prevent such dystopia from happening ?


Yes, because he sees it as an issue of technology, and the form of government is embedded in this. So if technology leads to dystopia, one can't stop it from within technology. Hell, democracy as we have it now is embedded in globsl capitalism, and it's somewhat powerless against that, - however, capitalism isn't the underlying driving force (which is why leftism doesn't work either), but technological progress.

It should be noted that the guy has a very radical conception of freedom.
And he doesn't consider a star trek post scarcity society as a possible outcome.



democracy where? all we see is a world where ms yellen no longer understand economics [and probably never did], mr soros no longer understand philosophy [and probably never did], and mrs clinton no longer understands politics [and probably never did], in addition to ms feinstein "STEM = climate science only climate science" and mr mccain "im bad at math but Hyperloop looked flashy enuff" yet they want to be the so called safe guardians of the entire humanity .. do they know what they will look like in 2100 ? ...


so ... let's not digress to the state of "democracy" now, let's just say that things are in shambles - but yeah, so even the most transparent form of democracy would succumb to technology, unless tere was aquasi-religious value tat forbids technological advances, for all societies. otherwise, the onesthat do not forbid themselves newtech will colonize the rest, like britain did with china in the 19th century.
now china is catching up so it cannot becolonized again, and so forth.


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eilishbillie987
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30 May 2019, 12:03 am

shlaifu wrote:
ollychan wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
ollychan wrote:
)2 hes saying even with the most transparent form of democracy you still can't prevent such dystopia from happening ?


Yes, because he sees it as an issue of technology, and the form of government is embedded in this. So if technology leads to dystopia, one can't stop it from within technology. Hell, democracy as we have it now is embedded in globsl capitalism, and it's somewhat powerless against that, - however, capitalism isn't the underlying driving force (which is why leftism doesn't work either), but technological progress.

It should be noted that the guy has a very radical conception of freedom.
And he doesn't consider a star trek post scarcity society as a possible outcome.



democracy where? all we see is a world where ms yellen no longer understand economics [and probably never did], mr soros no longer understand philosophy [and probably never did], and mrs clinton no longer understands politics [and probably never did], in addition to ms feinstein "STEM = climate science only climate science" and mr mccain "im bad at math but Hyperloop looked flashy enuff" yet they want to be the so called safe guardians of the entire humanity .. do they know what they will look like in 2100 ? ...


so ... let's not digress to the state of "democracy" now, let's just say that things are in shambles - but yeah, so even the most transparent form of democracy would succumb to technology, unless tere was aquasi-religious value tat forbids technological advances, for all societies. otherwise, the onesthat do not forbid themselves newtech will colonize the rest, like britain did with china in the 19th century.
now china is catching up so it cannot becolonized again, and so forth.


3) so if the sun burns out one day, we just sit on this planet and do not develop technology to move to other planets and wait for the end ?



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31 May 2019, 2:51 pm

he's saying the only way to be free is to live self sufficient.
hunter gatherer - farming is technology that provides "safety", but it creates unfreedom, as you have to tend the soil and everything. The technology of farming dictates what the farmer does with his time- and it's boring, and archeologists say the state of human health went down rapidly with the beginning of the cultural revolution. But it was possible to make more offspring and attack they neighbouring tribe etc. - so agricultural peoples took over the land of hunterer gatherers, and the technological arms race necessary for survival in this environment takes its course.


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eilishbillie987
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01 Jun 2019, 11:52 am

shlaifu wrote:
he's saying the only way to be free is to live self sufficient.
hunter gatherer - farming is technology that provides "safety", but it creates unfreedom, as you have to tend the soil and everything. The technology of farming dictates what the farmer does with his time- and it's boring, and archeologists say the state of human health went down rapidly with the beginning of the cultural revolution. But it was possible to make more offspring and attack they neighbouring tribe etc. - so agricultural peoples took over the land of hunterer gatherers, and the technological arms race necessary for survival in this environment takes its course.



without technology when the sun burns out the human race would become extinct?



eilishbillie987
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01 Jun 2019, 12:02 pm

besides this planet, almost 99.9999999..% of this universe looks barren and perilous enough . u just have to get on with that.. whatever the result is ..

well the US constitution must have been poorly written in certain aspects as it hadnt anticipated this kind of techno-side effects catching up and overwhelming the turtle-speed of our legislature process nor had it had the ability to preemptly prevent certain power hungry people from completely subverting democracy with technology and driving america onto the brink of irreversible decline nor had had anyone come up with any amendment nor ... etc etc.



eilishbillie987
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01 Jun 2019, 12:05 pm

eilishbillie987 wrote:
besides this planet, almost 99.9999999..% of this universe looks barren and perilous enough . u just have to get on with that.. whatever the result is ..

well the US constitution must have been poorly written in certain aspects as it hadnt anticipated this kind of techno-side effects catching up and overwhelming the turtle-speed of our legislature process nor had it had the ability to preemptly prevent certain power hungry people from completely subverting democracy with technology and driving america onto the brink of irreversible decline nor had had anyone come up with any amendment nor ... etc etc.



that would mark the expedition of billie eilish and lil uzi vert onto the jupiter infrastructure and investment bank initiative projects.



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01 Jun 2019, 12:32 pm

Personally i see that technological advancements have the potential to move in various directions.
From an idealists perspective, the technological advancement has the potential to ultimately help the human race transcend present established economic structures, so as to alleviate man from the burden of forced employment,
with all jobs being done by technology, the human race can each then choose the areas that they choose to develop in, but without being chained to financial incentives, to realise their creativity and intellectual potential, for spiritual fulfillment and ultimately in their search for meaning.

This is one possible future.

Of course, at present, in the present state of the world, it is hard for anyone to perceive such a possible reality. Still, it is a possibility.

I do however think that it is more likely for us as a factionalise race of many competing nations, of nations that are factionalised by many competing companies, political parties, and individuals to possibly conceive of a reality that we no longer can compete with each other, or use our wealth and success to oppress others, and in some cases complete countries of innocents.

So, it is more likely that people will continue to act in a self serving selfish and uncontrolled unenlightened way,
so as to create unnecessary and often damaging products for the sole purpose to generate revenue so as to increase a persons individual material worth and potential for pro creation, as well as potential for personal entertainment, and power over others which they will inevitably will use and abuse.

I think in this second scenario, that the next most likely scenario is for the super elite to control through ownership of all technological advancements, which they will inevitably then use to cause a global human genocide, so as to get rid of any surplus out of work human beings which inevitably will be a waste of their resources but also because they are surplus to requirement, and after all who would share a planet with such people?

So. yep. all sorts of possible. futures. If any of you are wise and can see what's coming you all would learn embedded electronics, robotics, IoT design, AI or data analytics so that at the very least you will have some influence over the future, for at the very least the short term of our own life spans. after that, i am afraid it is going to take more than a few expert gageteers to save this planet from what's coming.

Personally i think the problem stems in parenting and schooling. Not enough effort is given to giving individuals self control skills, as self control is perhaps the one attributes that would save all sorts of problems.



madbutnotmad
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01 Jun 2019, 1:02 pm

I have to say that the Unibombers manifesto (given on a link on the original post) has to be one of the hardest to read documents that i have ever read.

It is a shame that this guy came to such conclusions. I do not doubt the guys intelligence.
Although can't say that i agree with much in his manifesto.

Shame he couldn't have invested in a ticket to a remote island or something, where he could have started his own experiment in started society a fresh under his own guidance, ideally on his own.

Bombing people, especially people who you don't even know has to be one of the craziest things that any one can do, and what can someone possibly achieve with such a bizarre strategy. Well, he got fame, if that was his goal, but can't say for the right reason.



eilishbillie987
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01 Jun 2019, 1:05 pm

i dont 5hink the elites are as smart as we thought them to be.. the last film by kubrick now seems to me is nothihg more than a reminiscence of the past seems bettet, thats when tom cruise crashes the whole party like murakami's entire collection standing side by side with some second and third tier french art works in louvre ..

Image



eilishbillie987
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01 Jun 2019, 1:16 pm

well if we live our lives until the sun butns out or we go on a space expedition until we become extinct ... whats the difference.



the idiot and the besy have partially switched their roles where on the one hand the neoliberal elites would do anything by whatever means to archieve the so called their perfect world (which rather looks like some incongruent postmodern hodgepodge in reality) and on the other hand ... we should write brother karamazov pt 2 . whos smart enough to write brothers karamazov pt 2.