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madbutnotmad
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30 May 2019, 5:48 pm

Why do people still practice magic? Especially since the enlightenment period, where science took over from religion and superstition!

Now, i know that for some, Magick, in whatever form may be intrinsically linked to their cultural beliefs and upbringing,
others it may be intrinsically interwoven into the entertainment / music culture they are obsessed with, and others,
it may be part of history that they take most influence from. I also note, in some vocations, such as acting, there is a history or tradition of pseudo occult practice practiced by those who are attracted to the overly dramatic.

But in such a day and age, is there really any excuse to follow such things that are clearly delusion.



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30 May 2019, 6:39 pm

The explanation that makes the most sense to me is that people are looking for control over the uncontrollable. Science, technology and medicine have advanced dramatically through the ages. This has caused a major decline in the need to appeal to magic. However, there remain some things beyond the help of technology. This makes people feel uneasy & helpless. Then they turn to the last hope. An incantation, a prayer, a pair of lucky socks. Whatever it takes! If it seems to work, they'll do it again. When it fails to work, they'll blame their technique. Sometimes the options are slim.



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30 May 2019, 10:59 pm

Because Druidcraft went out of style...


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31 May 2019, 1:28 am

The same reason people continue to be religious. Just because we as a society embraced rationalism doesn't mean that every individual has.


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techstepgenr8tion
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31 May 2019, 6:04 pm

I'm kinda surprised this one comes up as often as it does. It almost seems to be synonymous with 'I'm bored and out of new and interesting topics'.

One useful thing I might be able to tell you - I was at an OTO lodge a few years ago and a popular goetic author who happens to be a lodge master in another major city was there. One of the things he said maybe half way into his lecture on the Heptameron and other topics was that maybe half the people in the room typically do believe that there's some reality to the stuff he was writing about (in turn he's been doing a lot of digging and translations on Renaissance work and enjoys that kind of stuff) based on private experiences and the other half of the room were people who believed it was all psychological but still profoundly useful - and he mentioned that he was in the 'its all psychological' camp.

So maybe that's something you may want to chew on - ie. that enough practitioners, maybe not half but a significant mid double-digit minority, consider that it's all in their heads and still want to do it. You also have people who want to go digging through the Sloan and Hurley libraries for goetic material, Renaissance theurgy, and alchemical texts that they can translate.

The point I'm making - it's not a clean and tidy category that can really be resolved by anything like "Oh, they're x". No, it's way too many different kinds of people doing different things.


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31 May 2019, 6:26 pm

I only practice the dark arts on those who would seek to oppress me.



madbutnotmad
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31 May 2019, 6:26 pm

for sure. I am not disputing that there are people who follow such beliefs, whether they truly believe or they are simply going along with the crowd.

I mean, there are many many "traditions" and many pseudo traditions that people follow.
I live on an island that has a rich history in this area, not that i am one who subscribes, but nonetheless
i am aware. The people of salem apparently came from the island i live on. (know how they feel too).

Also, if you look into the numerology side of things, it could be argued that magickal numerology is found almost everywhere in the modern world, perhaps too many places. Including with the Police etc.
I do not know if the connection is between Freemasons numerology or satanic numerology.
I do not know enough about the subject.

As for your first comment "I'm kinda surprised this one comes up as often as it does. It almost seems to be synonymous with 'I'm bored and out of new and interesting topics'.", i am not so sure if that is true.

I know that people who are involved in covert operations prefer to not attract any interest to their dealings, as they want to keep the illusion of their "magic" alive. As if everyone knew what people involved in covert ops, then not only would it take away the spookiness out of it, but it would certainly increase their risk and likelihood of getting caught and prosecuted if they are doing anything illegal. And inevitably. some (and i am not saying all people do) but some
are involved in such criminal activities. I know more than most. In some ways such a phenomena can be likened to an underground organised crime network, that covertly orchestrates all sorts of bad things to their chosen victims.

Horrible bunch, and so often unjust abuse. But like i say, some of the police are also likely involved. so what can you do. apart from go live away from such people.



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31 May 2019, 6:30 pm

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31 May 2019, 6:32 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
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Fun for the whole family!



techstepgenr8tion
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31 May 2019, 7:00 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
for sure. I am not disputing that there are people who follow such beliefs, whether they truly believe or they are simply going along with the crowd.

The Isle of Jersey might be a very different sort of place than the US, we don't have an in-crowd for this sort of thing for people to be glomming onto. I'd add, when people travel across states to go to lectures like these or participate in theurgic rights they're joining up with people who share an interest that next to no one in their offline life shares. Maybe in Jersey 50% church and 50% conformity covers it, it really doesn't over here though.

madbutnotmad wrote:
I mean, there are many many "traditions" and many pseudo traditions that people follow.
I live on an island that has a rich history in this area, not that i am one who subscribes, but nonetheless
i am aware. The people of salem apparently came from the island i live on. (know how they feel too).

They were puritans right? Part of the problem with having a belief system that requires organized evil is that it's not worth much unless you have either evidence of that organized evil or something vague enough that you can tack the label to.

madbutnotmad wrote:
Also, if you look into the numerology side of things, it could be argued that magickal numerology is found almost everywhere in the modern world, perhaps too many places. Including with the Police etc.
I do not know if the connection is between Freemasons numerology or satanic numerology.
I do not know enough about the subject.

I'm sure a lot of it was influenced by Freemasons being that it was a really big thing in the early to mid 20th century, starting to fizzle down now though in terms of head-count.

Also I'm not sure I know what satanic numerology is, I might need to be filled in on that.

madbutnotmad wrote:
I know that people who are involved in covert operations prefer to not attract any interest to their dealings, as they want to keep the illusion of their "magic" alive. As if everyone knew what people involved in covert ops, then not only would it take away the spookiness out of it, but it would certainly increase their risk and likelihood of getting caught and prosecuted if they are doing anything illegal. And inevitably. some (and i am not saying all people do) but some
are involved in such criminal activities. I know more than most. In some ways such a phenomena can be likened to an underground organised crime network, that covertly orchestrates all sorts of bad things to their chosen victims.

Technically there's a set of four concepts that are often considered central by Hermetic practitioners, Franz Bardon and Dion Fortune both kept it front and center - that it's to know, to will, to dare, and to remain silent. For someone to want to have an 'err' about them would mean they don't really believe it's a thing and if they follow that four-part formula they look, dress, and act like normal people and don't like talking about what they do because it's considered to be something that goes on in a sort of shared mental and emotional zone where telling people about their operations opens those operations up to contaminants.

As for sketchy organizations, there are a few out there and like sketchy Indian gurus you have people who make life-destroying cults, Carlos Castenada was a good example of that and there are a few faux-Golden Dawn organizations out there that are run by people who have something up their sleeve but mostly just selling half-baked ideas.

madbutnotmad wrote:
Horrible bunch, and so often unjust abuse. But like i say, some of the police are also likely involved. so what can you do. apart from go live away from such people.


Ok, so I think I know the direction that you're going in a bit better now. The way I'd phrase it - pretty much any mystical or magical order that you can find or contact online is significantly scrutinized, files with the federal government as a not-for-profit, and they keep social rules and etiquette generally commensurate with current culture and state and local law. Rosicrucian orders like AMORC are a bit like alchemical Platonism mixed with Christianity and keep a similar moral bearing to most Christian sects, Martinism similar thing, with the Golden Dawn diaspora their main focus is their grade work (ten grades which amount to the spheres of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life) and so ritual and internal personal results and changes are front and center (the same thing is even more true with Crowley's A.'.A.'.), and Ordo Templi Orientis in the US saw it's last significant use of entheogens with Grady McMurtry and aside from having a somewhat visually racy Gnostic Mass it's quite the other orders - ie. a place where Unitarian Universalist types get together and do nerdy things.

What you might be thinking of is that there are secret societies in the political sense, similarly there may be some in the economic class sense, and you may in there have some below-the-radar criminal organizations who try to use this model for concealing their identities and as a given human trafficking is by its very nature a below-the-radar sort of thing that probably has all kinds of call-signs and ways for people in the network to identify each other.

I don't know if anything I said above is helpful, and generally I never really know whether people are actually curious about these things or simply looking to have their thoughts and beliefs confirmed.


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Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 31 May 2019, 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SaveFerris
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31 May 2019, 7:02 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Image


Fun for the whole family!


Exorcising keeps you fit :twisted:


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31 May 2019, 7:31 pm

The current Wica movement who claim/believe to be witches/warlocks are only practicing "dude"craft rather than druidcraft.

In any case even the celtic druids were fake as well, the Celts entered Britain only 500 years before the Anglo-Saxons, the indigenous folk beliefs were likely absorbed/imitated much like indo-European ancestors of modern hinduism absorbed indigenous elements to create the myriad of gods you see in India today.

Magic is a vestige of traditional beliefs although I suspect magicians are actually influenced by Vaudville/circus tricks copied from Gyspies who western Europeans copied to create dance (traditional waltzes and polkas) and the modern orchestra (almost all stringed instruments and the piano are copied from the gyspy fiddle and piano-accordion).

It's all an "illusion"



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31 May 2019, 7:35 pm

The Bible condemns witchcraft and sorcery.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-witchcraft.html

Staunch Christians who take the Bible literally are going to think that magic is possible but that it comes from Satan.

My family believed in all of this sort of stuff, and I wasn’t allowed to read books with magic in them (like Harry Potter) because it could summon demons. Oy vey!

I have a whole collection of books and video games featuring magic now and Satan hasn’t paid me any visits yet. It’s a shame because he sounds like lots of fun. :P



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31 May 2019, 7:37 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
Image


The pentogram is an ancient symbol of truth in hinduism and judaism and was first picked up the Pythagoreans who learned the "art of science" from India/Egypt. When christianity arrived around 400AD it was deemed a sign of satan and cleansed from western memory other than being a portal for demons (in most traditional societies demons and ghosts don't require an invitation or portal)



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31 May 2019, 7:38 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Image


Fun for the whole family!


Exorcising keeps you fit :twisted:


Why exorcise? Why not just enjoy the debauchery?