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techstepgenr8tion
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12 Jun 2019, 5:29 am

Monday pretty much nailed this I think on human myopia and why civilizations generally can't survive prosperity without some type of artificial consequences being enforced for the lack of them being provided by nature.


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12 Jun 2019, 7:44 am

Maybe they're simply living in denial and don't want to accept reality? Like an ostrich hiding its head in the sand waiting for the lion to come up and bite it on its feathery buttocks?

Actually, that's a poor metaphor to use. I just read that ostriches don't really hide their heads in the sand. They put their heads in the sand to build nests and when predators come they simply outrun them.

What's a good metaphor for being in denial? :chin:


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12 Jun 2019, 8:04 am

He's not wrong to call out the Right for not doing enough, particularly those who thought one vote for Trump or Brexit would be sufficient to turn things around. He's wrong about what should be done though, particularly about democratic activism and making youtube videos certainly won't be enough. He won't be allowed on youtube much longer anyway.

The notion that activism is the path to power is not just wrong, it is fully backwards... Activism of any kind is not the path to power, it is the end result of power. It is not the way to gain power and influence, it is a victory dance for those who already have it.

For now the thing to do is build our own internet platforms. Dissidents, right or left, are all going to be kicked off the big ones sooner rather than later.


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12 Jun 2019, 8:08 am

Mikah wrote:
He's not wrong to call out the Right for not doing enough, particularly those who thought one vote for Trump or Brexit would be sufficient to turn things around. He's wrong about what should be done though, particularly about democratic activism and making youtube videos certainly won't be enough. He won't be allowed on youtube much longer anyway.

The notion that activism is the path to power is not just wrong, it is fully backwards... Activism of any kind is not the path to power, it is the end result of power. It is not the way to gain power and influence, it is a victory dance for those who already have it.

For now the thing to do is build our own internet platforms. Dissidents, right or left, are all going to be kicked off the big ones sooner rather than later.


Republicans and MAGAs are not just ignoring the problem you know, they're contributing to it with all of this climate change denial bullshit.


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12 Jun 2019, 8:08 am

There are no problems with prosperity, unless there is no prosperity at all.


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12 Jun 2019, 8:15 am

What I meant to say is the fact that Trump's adminstration is actually passing laws that delibertly go against the protection of the environment means they aren't just denying climate change, they are contributing to it. If we face a giant Hurricane Katrina that destroys the entire USA they will deserve all the blame.


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12 Jun 2019, 8:18 am

Fix the problems, not the blame.


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12 Jun 2019, 8:22 am

But I know how Amuuuurricans think. Just like with Reagan and the NAFTA s**t, they're not going to blame Trump for ruining our future when the future comes. They'll pin the blame on whoever is president at the time because they'll forget all about what Trump did. :roll:


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techstepgenr8tion
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12 Jun 2019, 8:39 am

Mikah wrote:
For now the thing to do is build our own internet platforms. Dissidents, right or left, are all going to be kicked off the big ones sooner rather than later.

David Pakman made a pretty persuasive point about this on Joe Rogan #1311 when they were talking about the Steven Crowder / Maza and David asked Joe 'If Carlos Maza was a gay Republican, do you think anyone would have cared?' and Joe clearly got his point, it's not intellectually consistent because the social forces that Youtube's advertisers are reacting to aren't logically consistent and their purpose isn't to broker truth - it's to make money and not get tarred as 'white supremecist', 'sexist', or 'racist' friendly brands. The horror of that of course is just how much power the dumb, the lymbic, and the loose-cannons wield over culture by being dumb and being immune to reason.

It's not a political agenda so much as a corporation who wants to make money running away from anything that gets a bad public reaction. I'd agree with you that left and right-wing news sources will get demonitized left and right because an algorithm could associate 'nazi' or 'fascist' with white identitarianism and thus demonitize anyone whose talking in any way about white identitarianism.


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12 Jun 2019, 8:44 am

Fnord wrote:
Fix the problems, not the blame.

We can't fix the problems if everybody wants to ignore them.


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12 Jun 2019, 9:48 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
David Pakman made a pretty persuasive point about this on Joe Rogan #1311 when they were talking about the Steven Crowder / Maza and David asked Joe 'If Carlos Maza was a gay Republican, do you think anyone would have cared?' and Joe clearly got his point, it's not intellectually consistent because the social forces that Youtube's advertisers are reacting to aren't logically consistent and their purpose isn't to broker truth - it's to make money and not get tarred as 'white supremecist', 'sexist', or 'racist' friendly brands. The horror of that of course is just how much power the dumb, the lymbic, and the loose-cannons wield over culture by being dumb and being immune to reason.

It's not a political agenda so much as a corporation who wants to make money running away from anything that gets a bad public reaction. I'd agree with you that left and right-wing news sources will get demonitized left and right because an algorithm could associate 'nazi' or 'fascist' with white identitarianism and thus demonitize anyone whose talking in any way about white identitarianism.


I used to think the same, it's the most obvious explanation. However, our old friend Theodore Beale has another model that is more compelling to me. There are many documented cases of corporations pandering to these people that have subsequently taken serious hits to their bottom lines for doing so. Yet the same mistakes keep getting repeated by supposedly serious men of business. Vox describes the "convergence" of corporations or other group entities, including non-profit orgs, open source software collectives, schools, universities and even religious organisations by infiltration of social justice minded employees who gradually change the company culture and start purging wrongthinkers. If you ever hear "code of conduct" that's a red flag for convergence. He has a couple of good books worth reading on the topic.

The five stages of corporate convergence

Convergence describes the degree to which an organization prioritizes social justice. There are five stages of corporate convergence:

1. Infiltrated. The corporation has been entered by people devoted to social justice, but they do not have any significant influence or authority within the company. Employees are hired, fired, and promoted on the basis of either merit or connections. The marketing tends to reflect the company's products and services.
2. Lightly Converged. The social justice infiltrators have begun to move into their preferred areas, such as Human Resources and Marketing, but they don't have any real influence over the corporation's policies or corporate strategies. The company starts to make occasional noises about "outreach" and "diversity", but doesn't actually change its employment practices. The marketing is still mostly about the company's products, but now features improbably diverse scenarios.
3. Moderately Converged. Social justice advocates now control Human Resources, which is used as a corporate high ground to exert influence over other departments as well as the executive team. The corporate marketing begins to devote more attention to signaling corporate virtue than selling its products. Managers are encouraged to hire diverse candidates and to stop holding low-performance employees accountable. HR begins holding mandatory awareness sessions and hiring diversity consultants. The corporation's customer service begins to go downhill.
4. Heavily Converged. Social justice advocates now control the corporate high ground and the strategic centers. Significant elements of the executive team and the board are devoted to social justice, often in a very public manner. Implicit hiring quotas are imposed and it becomes almost impossible to fire anyone for anything short of murder in the workplace. HR openly dictates corporate policy to employees, often without consulting the executives. The marketing materials not only signal corporate virtue, but openly advocate various social justice issues. The corporation shows indifference to its core customer base and begins to obsess over new markets that mostly exist in its imagination.
5. Fully Converged. The corporation devotes significant resources to social causes that have absolutely nothing to do with its core business activities. Human Resources is transformed into a full Inquisition, imposing its policies without restraint and striking fear into everyone from the Chairman of the Board on down. The CEO regularly mouths social justice platitudes in the place of corporate strategies and the marketing materials are so full of virtue-signaling and social justice advocacy that it becomes difficult to tell from them what the company actually does or sells. The corporation now shows open contempt for its customers.


If they survive long enough, eventually they start attacking their existing customer base and business partners. Money really does become secondary to politics at a certain point due to convergence. Unfortunately the biggest have money to burn.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/12/the- ... gence.html


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techstepgenr8tion
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12 Jun 2019, 9:57 am

Mikah wrote:
I used to think the same, it's the most obvious explanation. However, our old friend Theodore Beale has another model that is more compelling to me. There are many documented cases of corporations pandering to these people that have subsequently taken serious hits to their bottom lines for doing so. Yet the same mistakes keep getting repeated by supposedly serious men of business. Vox describes the "convergence" of corporations or other group entities, including non-profit orgs, open source software collectives, schools, universities and even religious organisations by infiltration of social justice minded employees who gradually change the company culture and start purging wrongthinkers. If you ever hear "code of conduct" that's a red flag for convergence. He has a couple of good books worth reading on the topic.

The five stages of corporate convergence

Convergence describes the degree to which an organization prioritizes social justice. There are five stages of corporate convergence:

1. Infiltrated. The corporation has been entered by people devoted to social justice, but they do not have any significant influence or authority within the company. Employees are hired, fired, and promoted on the basis of either merit or connections. The marketing tends to reflect the company's products and services.
2. Lightly Converged. The social justice infiltrators have begun to move into their preferred areas, such as Human Resources and Marketing, but they don't have any real influence over the corporation's policies or corporate strategies. The company starts to make occasional noises about "outreach" and "diversity", but doesn't actually change its employment practices. The marketing is still mostly about the company's products, but now features improbably diverse scenarios.
3. Moderately Converged. Social justice advocates now control Human Resources, which is used as a corporate high ground to exert influence over other departments as well as the executive team. The corporate marketing begins to devote more attention to signaling corporate virtue than selling its products. Managers are encouraged to hire diverse candidates and to stop holding low-performance employees accountable. HR begins holding mandatory awareness sessions and hiring diversity consultants. The corporation's customer service begins to go downhill.
4. Heavily Converged. Social justice advocates now control the corporate high ground and the strategic centers. Significant elements of the executive team and the board are devoted to social justice, often in a very public manner. Implicit hiring quotas are imposed and it becomes almost impossible to fire anyone for anything short of murder in the workplace. HR openly dictates corporate policy to employees, often without consulting the executives. The marketing materials not only signal corporate virtue, but openly advocate various social justice issues. The corporation shows indifference to its core customer base and begins to obsess over new markets that mostly exist in its imagination.
5. Fully Converged. The corporation devotes significant resources to social causes that have absolutely nothing to do with its core business activities. Human Resources is transformed into a full Inquisition, imposing its policies without restraint and striking fear into everyone from the Chairman of the Board on down. The CEO regularly mouths social justice platitudes in the place of corporate strategies and the marketing materials are so full of virtue-signaling and social justice advocacy that it becomes difficult to tell from them what the company actually does or sells. The corporation now shows open contempt for its customers.


If they survive long enough, eventually they start attacking their existing customer base and business partners. Money really does become secondary to politics at a certain point due to convergence. Unfortunately the biggest have money to burn.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/12/the- ... gence.html


Oh, I have no doubt that as the HR department of a company becomes increasingly 'woke' this is what happens. Its a disease that our culture seems to have no immunity to right now and likely won't have much immunity to until we hit the bricks and where the usual shielding of consequences for the dumb or the wishful can't be maintained anymore.

But what's happening right now clearly seems to be a combination of a) cowardice and b) sing the shareholders to sleep at the slightest murmuring that a controversy could be brewing.

On a side note - I'm at least glad Vox isn't suggesting a conspiracy here, simple human weakness of mind and character seem like more than enough and the internet has given people the ability to run full-throttle at finding people who share their own delusions just as passionately to run out and change the world with.


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12 Jun 2019, 10:00 am

Mikah wrote:
... 5. Fully Converged. The corporation devotes significant resources to social causes that have absolutely nothing to do with its core business activities. Human Resources is transformed into a full Inquisition, imposing its policies without restraint and striking fear into everyone from the Chairman of the Board on down. The CEO regularly mouths social justice platitudes in the place of corporate strategies and the marketing materials are so full of virtue-signaling and social justice advocacy that it becomes difficult to tell from them what the company actually does or sells. The corporation now shows open contempt for its customers.

If they survive long enough, eventually they start attacking their existing customer base and business partners. Money really does become secondary to politics at a certain point due to convergence. Unfortunately the biggest have money to burn...
I've seen this happen with a few start-ups. Some nerds get together and try to bring a Great Idea to market. The people they hire as marketing consultants are more interested in Social Justice than in making a profit. Soon, the start-up becomes bloated with socially-conscious policies and people, and the nerds are either forced out or stick around to watch their Great Idea slowly dissolve into nothingness. The company loses its original purpose and becomes an Echo Chamber for SJWs who could not care less about corporate viability. There is no happy ending.


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12 Jun 2019, 11:08 am

I haven't watched the video yet, but from the comments I gather it goes something along the Bane quote:

"Victory has defeated you, peace has robbed you of your strength"

I think there's some truth to that.


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techstepgenr8tion
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12 Jun 2019, 11:10 am

Antrax wrote:
I haven't watched the video yet, but from the comments I gather it goes something along the Bane quote:

"Victory has defeated you, peace has robbed you of your strength"

I think there's some truth to that.


The good news - it's 11:22 min, nothing too epic.


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