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Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 3:04 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
timf wrote:
We homeschooled our children. We often heard the objection that our children would be deprived of "socialization". I have come to see that what is meant could be called child abuse called social dependency where children in age segregated classrooms come to have an unhealthy dependence on those of their own age and a corresponding deficiency in the ability to interact with those older or younger.

Here is an interesting link describing a difference between education and learning. It is from a Christian perspective, but that can mostly be ignored if desired.

http://christianpioneer.com/lib/education/educate.htm

They also have a 10 minute video on the subject

http://christianpioneer.com/videos/what ... ation1.mp4


Yes, homeschooling is the way to go, if you want to bring up intelligent, competent, moral, self-sufficient and decent children, though for this reason, the elites are assaulting it, too. The only woman I know whom I admire was homeschooled.


I"m all for having a governess. :heart: I do agree that homeschool is preferable, especially for those on the spectrum and those who have individual needs or talents.


Why was it that governesses were always foreign? Governesses in England were German or French; governesses in France were English (cf. Villette) and in Russia they were German or English.

If I ever have children, I'll send them to private school if it's affordable and homeschool them if not. I would never produce children with a view to damaging their minds and morals by sending them to state school.



IsabellaLinton
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01 Jul 2019, 3:05 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I was homeschooled. It wasn’t ideal. If my brother and I could do it over again, we would both go to school.

There definitely wasn’t enough socialization and the education I received was subpar. One can have a decent education through homeschooling if the parents make a decent enough income, though.

I didn’t have enough opportunities to work on social skills and I missed having close and supportive relationships with teachers which I needed.


You've mentioned taking Phys. Ed classes in elementary school, being afraid in the change rooms and being taught to throw balls like a girl. Were you always homeschooled? Also it seems your home-school education was limited to JW standards and ideology, which I wouldn't promote in a home school program.



Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 3:06 pm

The ideal for homeschooling, to my mind, is the arrangement John Stuart Mill described having with his father, the great James Mill, in his autobiography. I was transfixed, the first time I read that book.

I'm not a fan of the JW movement at all. Frankly, they give Christianity a bad name.



IsabellaLinton
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01 Jul 2019, 3:13 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
Why was it that governesses were always foreign? Governesses in England were German or French; governesses in France were English (cf. Villette) and in Russia they were German or English.


Governesses were foreign because languages were among the few subjects young girls were taught (generally needlepoint, music, languages and basic ciphering for household economics). There was an implied element of culture or social status to have an international governess or au pair.



Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 3:14 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
Why was it that governesses were always foreign? Governesses in England were German or French; governesses in France were English (cf. Villette) and in Russia they were German or English.


Governesses were foreign because languages were among the few subjects young girls were taught (generally needlepoint, music, languages and basic ciphering for household economics). There was an implied element of culture or social status to have an international governess or au pair.


But I thought they taught boys, too? I get the last part.



IsabellaLinton
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01 Jul 2019, 3:19 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
Why was it that governesses were always foreign? Governesses in England were German or French; governesses in France were English (cf. Villette) and in Russia they were German or English.


Governesses were foreign because languages were among the few subjects young girls were taught (generally needlepoint, music, languages and basic ciphering for household economics). There was an implied element of culture or social status to have an international governess or au pair.


But I thought they taught boys, too? I get the last part.


Yes, they did. Sorry, I should have mentioned that. Young boys often had a governess until being sent away to school, to the clergy for religious instruction, or they would get a male tutor around the age of eight.



Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 3:24 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
Why was it that governesses were always foreign? Governesses in England were German or French; governesses in France were English (cf. Villette) and in Russia they were German or English.


Governesses were foreign because languages were among the few subjects young girls were taught (generally needlepoint, music, languages and basic ciphering for household economics). There was an implied element of culture or social status to have an international governess or au pair.


But I thought they taught boys, too? I get the last part.


Yes, they did. Sorry, I should have mentioned that. Young boys often had a governess until being sent away to school, to the clergy for religious instruction, or they would get a male tutor around the age of eight.

I suppose in Britain boys had the Public School system. Nothing comparable existed for girls.



Last edited by Prometheus18 on 01 Jul 2019, 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Twilightprincess
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01 Jul 2019, 3:24 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I was homeschooled. It wasn’t ideal. If my brother and I could do it over again, we would both go to school.

There definitely wasn’t enough socialization and the education I received was subpar. One can have a decent education through homeschooling if the parents make a decent enough income, though.

I didn’t have enough opportunities to work on social skills and I missed having close and supportive relationships with teachers which I needed.


You've mentioned taking Phys. Ed classes in elementary school, being afraid in the change rooms and being taught to throw balls like a girl. Were you always homeschooled? Also it seems your home-school education was limited to JW standards and ideology, which I wouldn't promote in a home school program.


I started homeschooling in 6th grade.

It was a fairly typical homeschool experience that wasn’t overly dictated by theology although most people homeschool in the US for religious reasons.

A lot of people who homeschooled feel that they didn’t have enough opportunities to work on social skills. I certainly didn’t. It REALLY held me back in this area. Learning how to socialize with one’s peers is vital as far as future educational or career opportunities go.

Education is better in traditional schools when it comes to higher level math or other complex subjects that parents don’t always remember from when they were in school. It’s hard to teach oneself certain topics from a textbook.

I thrive in a typical academic setting. By the time I got to college (through a lot of cramming to catch up), I didn’t even know I was smart because I never had feedback from teachers. I didn’t know if I would pass my first semester’s classes. I graduated summa cum laude, but I had to work extremely hard to do so because I was pretty far behind in various subjects. If I would’ve had a better understanding of my ability at a younger age, I might have had a clearer notion of what I wanted to do and who I wanted to be.

It might have been better with private tutors but most people can’t afford that.

My kid is in public school and is thriving. Private school and homeschooling aren’t feasible or even desirable for most people. There are a lot of supports in schools these days that are enabling kids on the spectrum to have a better experience than previous generations of students. My son’s school even has an autism pride week and is very supportive of neurodiversity while the teachers try to help students reach their full potential.



Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 3:27 pm

There's something to be said for pushing a child to learn. I wish I'd been pushed harder. Even the Public Schools have abandoned this ethos now. I'd have refused to participate in anything like an "Autism Pride Week", though I have no problem with it if others want to bother with that sort of thing.



Last edited by Prometheus18 on 01 Jul 2019, 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Twilightprincess
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01 Jul 2019, 3:28 pm

I became more shy and introverted the more time I spent homeschooling. I regressed socially to an extreme extent.



Twilightprincess
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01 Jul 2019, 3:31 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
There's something to be said for pushing a child to learn. I wish I'd been pushed harder. Even the Public Schools have abandoned this ethos now.


There’s still more pushing going on than most homeschoolers have.

Since one can drop out of high school in 9th grade in the US, there’s no one other than parents to make sure that you are doing even the bare minimum.

If I had been in school, I could’ve taken a language. That’s another thing that I couldn’t learn very well on my own, especially with the inferior program I had which is all my parents could afford.



Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 3:34 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
There's something to be said for pushing a child to learn. I wish I'd been pushed harder. Even the Public Schools have abandoned this ethos now.


There’s still more pushing going on than most homeschoolers have.

Since one can drop out of high school in 9th grade in the US, there’s no one other than parents to make sure that you are doing even the bare minimum.

If I had been in school, I could’ve taken a language. That’s another thing that I couldn’t learn very well on my own, especially with the inferior program I had which is all my parents could afford.


If you'd had the historian James Mill as your tutor, you'd have been reading Ancient Greek at three.



Twilightprincess
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01 Jul 2019, 3:36 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
There's something to be said for pushing a child to learn. I wish I'd been pushed harder. Even the Public Schools have abandoned this ethos now.


There’s still more pushing going on than most homeschoolers have.

Since one can drop out of high school in 9th grade in the US, there’s no one other than parents to make sure that you are doing even the bare minimum.

If I had been in school, I could’ve taken a language. That’s another thing that I couldn’t learn very well on my own, especially with the inferior program I had which is all my parents could afford.


If you'd had the historian James Mill as your tutor, you'd have been reading Ancient Greek at three.


I don’t know that many people who could afford to hire private tutors.

I’m just trying to speak in practical terms here.



IsabellaLinton
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01 Jul 2019, 3:36 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
There's something to be said for pushing a child to learn. I wish I'd been pushed harder. Even the Public Schools have abandoned this ethos now. I'd have refused to participate in anything like an "Autism Pride Week", though I have no problem with it if others want to bother with that sort of thing.


I agree. I wish I was pushed harder too. I wasn't homeschooled but I was so introverted (autistic) that I didn't engage with the other children, regardless of their presence. I was usually allowed to do independent work. Most of the social contacts I had were outside of school with my extracurricular classes (dance, gymnastics, swimming, horseback riding, roller skating), and not from school. In fact, school was a very poor place to practise social skills since we were segregated by age and sometimes by gender (e.g., my kindergarten teacher spanking me for playing with a boys' train, and insisting I play house with the girls).



Twilightprincess
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01 Jul 2019, 3:39 pm

Lots of people can’t afford that many extracurricular activities. I could only do one thing at a time which was most often piano lessons.



IsabellaLinton
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01 Jul 2019, 3:44 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Lots of people can’t afford that many extracurricular activities. I could only do one thing at a time which was most often piano lessons.


These were certainly one at a time. Those are the lessons I took from age five to thirteen or fourteen. Most of the time I took no lessons at all because I was shy and not interested in more than reading. I'm just saying that extracurriculars were better opportunities to meet people and to interact in a non-structured environment than school.

It seems you spent half of your education in school (up to 6th), and half in home school (6th to Uni), rather than being homeschooled exclusively. Then you went to mainstream college as well.

Your formative years were in traditional elementary schools so I hope you made a few friends then.