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Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 3:47 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
There's something to be said for pushing a child to learn. I wish I'd been pushed harder. Even the Public Schools have abandoned this ethos now.


There’s still more pushing going on than most homeschoolers have.

Since one can drop out of high school in 9th grade in the US, there’s no one other than parents to make sure that you are doing even the bare minimum.

If I had been in school, I could’ve taken a language. That’s another thing that I couldn’t learn very well on my own, especially with the inferior program I had which is all my parents could afford.


If you'd had the historian James Mill as your tutor, you'd have been reading Ancient Greek at three.


I don’t know that many people who could afford to hire private tutors.

I’m just trying to speak in practical terms here.

I was being jocular. You must have heard of the educational feats of JS and James Mill (19th century). JS Mill, the Utilitarian philosopher, is the archetype of the child prodigy and James the archetype of the educationally overbearing parent.

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
There's something to be said for pushing a child to learn. I wish I'd been pushed harder. Even the Public Schools have abandoned this ethos now. I'd have refused to participate in anything like an "Autism Pride Week", though I have no problem with it if others want to bother with that sort of thing.


I agree. I wish I was pushed harder too. I wasn't homeschooled but I was so introverted (autistic) that I didn't engage with the other children, regardless of their presence. I was usually allowed to do independent work. Most of the social contacts I had were outside of school with my extracurricular classes (dance, gymnastics, swimming, horseback riding, roller skating), and not from school. In fact, school was a very poor place to practise social skills since we were segregated by age and sometimes by gender (e.g., my kindergarten teacher spanking me for playing with a boys' train, and insisting I play house with the girls).


For the virtues of parental pressure in education, read Amy Chua's memoir, Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. It's the superior, more traditional, more demanding parenting techniques that are responsible for East Asians' dominance in technical fields, she argues. I agree; nothing but admiration for the culture of the Far East - far better than what's become of our own.

Corporal punishment I'm ambivalent about. I was only seldom subject to it as a child. Obviously, never in school. I was (illegally) throttled by a teacher once, and never reported it. There were no witnesses.



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01 Jul 2019, 3:54 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
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Lots of people can’t afford that many extracurricular activities. I could only do one thing at a time which was most often piano lessons.


These were certainly one at a time. Those are the lessons I took from age five to thirteen or fourteen. Most of the time I took no lessons at all because I was shy and not interested in more than reading. I'm just saying that extracurriculars were better opportunities to meet people and to interact in a non-structured environment than school.

It seems you spent half of your education in school (up to 6th), and half in home school (6th to Uni), rather than being homeschooled exclusively. Then you went to mainstream college as well.

Your formative years were in traditional elementary schools so I hope you made a few friends then.


I homeschooled in 4th, went back to school in 5th, and homeschooled for the rest of the time. I also moved around, so I didn’t make many friends.

When I homeschooled, I was mostly home alone or home with my brother during that time. It was an inferior educational and social experience.

Homeschooling is not as good as most people think it will be. I know various people who have done it - both religious and not. Unless parents can afford things like tutors and have the money and time to put them in a variety of activities, they are going to lag behind people in traditional, academic settings.

I know some wealthy parents who gave their kids a classical education with private tutors, but those kids (who are NT by the way) have had trouble adjusting to life outside of their very narrow circle.



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01 Jul 2019, 4:04 pm

I agree that homeschooling isn't always ideal. It depends on who is providing the homeschool program. Providers need to be accountable to a rigorous curriculum and have regular inspections to ensure the children are at par with their peers. I don't know how yours worked but I've heard there are organisations where qualified teachers teach senior subjects such as Chemistry and the Arts. There are group gatherings and social events for the homeschooled students (arranged geographically), so they will still have interactive opportunities. I don't know what the cost is for such programs but I would hope they aren't cost prohibitive for people who need or want individualised instruction.

In my case I think people could have thrown all the money in the world at me, and I still wouldn't have socialised with the girls in my age group or felt comfortable in social settings. I was autistic, and my social readiness wouldn't have changed whether I was in private school, learning from a computer program or learning in a small group setting from my home.



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01 Jul 2019, 4:46 pm

I had so many hidden issues in school. Bullied from various directions from many individuals who mostly were just being themselves and not realizing that I was taking it more seriously... I was also always homesick. I found I hated the journey to school. Secondary school was only a mile and a half away from where I used to live, but due to morning nurves, I found I could not walk it and had to take the bus. I walked home though. The bus cost 20p, and then it went up to 25p. I had a coat pocket full of hundreds of little bus tickets. One day an inspector came on board to check tickets. I had put my ticket in the coat pocket... Ummm. I had to take the lot out! I did find it eventually.
Due to bullying, and homesickness, where all my thoughts were concentrated in wanting to get back home... And I have such a gifted mother who is a natural gifted teacher... She taught me so much....
I also had difficult schooling where I had a year where a teacher put me in a room on my own and didn't teach me. I was 5 to 6 at the time. She had a dissagreement with my Mum, and took it out on me.
Then in secondary school, I found the first two years we had Welsh and French lessons... And I am hopeless at languages. English, which I naturally speak I am not that tallented at... My vocabulary is limited and is only due to a numner of years trying to enlarge it that I communicate using more descriptive words... But I did so poorly in Welsh and especially French where I was putting French words in Welsh exams and Welsh words in French exams... It was only because I seem to mask well that somehow I got through classwork without teachers picking up I was no good... It was the exams that showed it... The first year I really conventrated in both languages more then the other subjects and got about 40 to 45% if I recall. The second years exams I gave up concentrating on revising languages and concentrated more on the other subjects, and so I had 9% in French! I think I was about 40% in Welsh? I can't remember.
I was just below the top set in my year as it was shown that I had above average intelligence leaving primary school. However, as I was also finding secondary school so difficult to adjust to anyway...The head of year decided she wanted to put me down a set. Fair enough... But she found out that the set at the bottom just above the remedials did not take French so she put me in this set instead.
She also put another bright minded boy from my last set in with me. We both found the work soo easy it was stupid... His parents complained and he was put up a class or two. The head of year was looking into putting me up when she had a brain tumour and sadly died. She was 43 years old. I then was stuck as we went ages without a head of year, and by the time a new one was appointed she thought it was too late to put me back up. I was bullied by the other kids in the class as I was coming top at everything and they had no chance to compete with me. One kid who would occasionally punch me when he found my results did score higher then me in one subject... You've guessed it. Welsh! (Welsh was compulsary up to the age of 14) He spoke Welsh at home. Strangely I was second in the class at Welsh with about 65%... I think it was because the cane had been abolished that year, and the new Welsh teacher who was a very nice lady, couldn't control the class, and only three of us were being taught! (Two very nice young men who were not that intelligent, but tried their best anyway! If only all could be like that!)

But overall, I believe I would have been much better off and actually be far less shy if I had been home schooled. Why less shy? Because of two things. My Mum was one who used to take me places to get me to think about things... She knew how my mind worked because she thinks in the same way and her Mum also thought in a similar way. Almost endless patience and kindness. And my Mum knew how to invent ways around an issue.. As I didn't always think the same way as the normal "Taught" way, and my Mum knew this... (And she also knew when I was taking it in or not) she would find ways around it for me to learn.
Also, the bullying in school and then collage made me so, so introverted and shy. The shyness didn't leave me until I started working after leaving education, when all the bullying stopped.
The problen was that my Mum could have only taught me up to the age of about 16. After that she said the subjects I was taking were beyond her... But, if my Grandad was able to take me on from there I would have been a genious. He was a very highly educated man who was kind and gentle. He, like his father were designers. My Grandad designed some impressive things too, and helped others with their designs. It was my Grandad who helped the man who invented catseyes to make them self cleaning when cars went over them. The man had the idea from trying to drive back home one dark night, and saw the eyes of a cat reflecting back at him, and he had the basic idea that he wanted to copy the cats eyes, but he didn't know how to go about it. My Grandad was able to advise him.
My Mum remembers him shooting onions through the attic when he was experimenting with compeessed air, and he made the first ever machine to top, tail, peel and pickle onions for a company he worked for in Burry Port. The machine is now sitting (If it is still there) outside the front of the factory. It is big and shiny. Made from stainless steel. :)


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Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 5:10 pm

School certainly helped me socially; I was rather shy and solitary, but became noticeably more so when away from school for long periods of time. I don't think this is important though; so much of what comes under the heading of "social skills" is just needless rubbish designed to help mediocrities sell rubbish to idiots - far be it from me. Frankly, I wish I were quieter and more withdrawn. I've always admired quietness and shyness, especially in women, and envied those in possession of these virtues.

As for the educational value of school - it's no exaggeration to state that I learned nothing whatever in secondary school. If I was interested in a subject, I bought the revision guides, taught myself at home ahead of everyone else, breezed through classwork and got top grades; if I wasn't interested, I spent classes copying out what was written in the textbooks so as to avoid doing real work and on exams almost went out of my way to get bad grades. I pride myself on the fact that I've taught myself everything beyond functional skills that I know.

I, like most here, was also bullied in school, though only moderately. In retrospect, I wish I had been bullied more; I think my bullying was character-forming for me.



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01 Jul 2019, 5:18 pm

I agree with you Prometheus.

I was educated entirely pre-internet, including University. It seemed imperative to attend a brick and mortar school to learn from teachers, lectures and seminars, especially in high school, because my parents didn't have the breadth of knowledge to instruct me in every discipline from home. Now with the internet and accessibility of curricula which are designed for accredited homeschool programs, I can't even fathom choosing high school. Those were the worst years of my life, socially. I would be a much different person if I hadn't been intimidated and terrified during my teenaged years.



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01 Jul 2019, 5:28 pm

The subjects I cared for, in order, were:

1. Mathematics
2. Philosophy
3. Latin
4. English

The subjects I most disliked, in order, were:

1. History (Marxism)
2. Media Studies (Awful teachers and boring study material)
3. Biology (Not fundamental enough)
4. Chemistry (Ditto)
5. Physics (Beneath my dignity, mathematically speaking)

The rest were so-so.



Last edited by Prometheus18 on 01 Jul 2019, 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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01 Jul 2019, 5:30 pm

I was brought up in the '70's onwards. It was the tail end of flower power etc, where they taught one should never use violence... Also, for the first few years in my life I had such tempers. However, by the time I was about five my dad had stopped these by giving me red behinds. However, from then on I got moody and sulky instead but have not really had destructive tempers. I nearly killed a girl when I was about four or five due to these tempers, when she took over my personal toy box... Was my private space!
One thing I noticed though, was when I stopped having the tempers, the partial shutdowns started instead. Is it a co-incidence?
The problem I get later in life is I get moody, but I don't think I get angry. I am more likely to hurt myself then others.
But it is why bullying was so much of a problem.
Mind you. I did habe a time where fatigue hit me after 9 years on the railways where I was soo wound up and my mind was jumping back and fore due to the lack of sleep... And I reached a point where if one more drunk would start to pick on me I would have killed them. I had reached that point! Almoat committed suicide during that time through not thinking straight.... I was just about to do it when a passenger (Who was completely unaware of my intentions) needed me to sort out some drunk young lads who were playing up... Tey were well behaved whe I got there! I turned to head back to the back cab and I saw drunk pensioners dancing on the tables of the train! Dealt witn them telling them to act their age etc... And by the time I reached the cab I came to my senses, and realized I had to quit the job if I was going to stay alive. I also have a miraculous sign from the Lord soon after to confirm this. And the rest is history!


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IsabellaLinton
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01 Jul 2019, 5:32 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
The subjects I cared for, in order, were:

1. Mathematics
2. Philosophy
3. Latin
4. English

The subjects I most disliked, in order, were:

1. History
2. Media Studies
3. Biology
4. Chemistry
5. Physics

The rest were so-so.


Favourites: English, Drama (Dramatic Literature as well as acting), Mathematics, Languages, Philosophy, History, Physics, Art

Worst: Biology, Politics, Tech (the only computer course I took involved feeding flowchart cards into a mainframe with no conceivable results).



Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 5:41 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The subjects I cared for, in order, were:

1. Mathematics
2. Philosophy
3. Latin
4. English

The subjects I most disliked, in order, were:

1. History
2. Media Studies
3. Biology
4. Chemistry
5. Physics

The rest were so-so.


Favourites: English, Drama (Dramatic Literature as well as acting), Mathematics, Languages, Philosophy, History, Physics, Art

Worst: Biology, Politics, Tech (the only computer course I took involved feeding flowchart cards into a mainframe with no conceivable results).

I'd have enjoyed physics tremendously, but for the refusal to use serious mathematics pre-AS Level. When I started GCSE Physics and learned that the mathematics, even at the highest level, didn't go beyond straight line graphs and basic arithmetic - given that I'd taught myself calculus at fourteen - I became disenchanted, and gave the subject up, meaning I had to learn from scratch some of the basic, nonmathematical concepts that I'd earlier neglected, after taking physics up at degree level.

Would you believe it - calculus was removed from the GCSE Mathematics curriculum when I was a preteen, although I still enjoyed polynomials and a few other things.



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01 Jul 2019, 5:54 pm

Anyone watch the origional link?


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01 Jul 2019, 6:04 pm

It was the teachers who made school for me:

English:
First year, a straight-talking middle-aged woman who once called my elder sister an "attention seeker" to her face (I internally applauded the teacher in question, after hearing about this). Second and third years, a gorgeous Armenian woman with a noble, Grecian nose.

My maths teacher was a tall, intimidating woman who had been friends with former Prime Minister David Cameron at Oxford. She loved me, but I didn't utter a single word in her classes.

My Latin teacher was a weird, bearded old man who looked like Raphael's Plato.

My philosophy teacher was an eccentric American who was decidedly too tactile.

My German teacher was a middle-aged geezer who spent most of his lessons engaging in vitriolic but light-hearted verbal skirmishes with me and two other boys.



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01 Jul 2019, 6:07 pm

I'm sure at least a couple of people saw the video.



Mountain Goat
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01 Jul 2019, 6:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm sure at least a couple of people saw the video.


Thanks. I was thinking it may make more sense for people living in the USA of a certain age who can relate to what she said more (E.g. the people she is talking about).


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01 Jul 2019, 6:38 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:


If I ever have children, I'll send them to private school if it's affordable and homeschool them if not. I would never produce children with a view to damaging their minds and morals by sending them to state school.


I went to private schools,prep and then public from 8-18. Public school was a bad experience due to verbal bullying from trainee sociopaths.


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Prometheus18
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01 Jul 2019, 6:40 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:


If I ever have children, I'll send them to private school if it's affordable and homeschool them if not. I would never produce children with a view to damaging their minds and morals by sending them to state school.


I went to private schools,prep and then public from 8-18. Public school was a bad experience due to verbal bullying from trainee sociopaths.


Public School has changed a great deal since then. "Fagging", for instance, no longer occurs.