Alt right and Antifa fight in Portland again

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StayFrosty
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02 Jul 2019, 6:39 pm

I say, we just let them kill each other.



Wolfram87
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02 Jul 2019, 7:05 pm

ASS-P wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Since it doesn't seem to be mentioned: quick-drying cement is highly caustic. Throwing those "milkshakes" should be considered disguised acid attacks.







...I saw a piece somewhere saying that the liquid-cement-in-the-milkshake narrative was false. At best, someone honestly mistook powdered milkshake mix for liquid cement.



That seems really suspicious, and reeks of damage control. The original response from people more sympathetic to antifa was "yeah, but its okay because the sugar stops it from setting." Now that it's been pointed out that that won't stop it from causing chemical burns, they suddenly insist there was never any quick-lime in the first place.


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madbutnotmad
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02 Jul 2019, 7:33 pm

Years ago, in the early 90's when i was around 20. I went to a "Peace March" protest in London.
Which was a "peaceful" protest to protest against members of the British National Party getting
voted into the British Government.

Now, before people start attacking me and telling me off saying that everyone has the right to
freedom of speech. Which i respect to a point, as long as the speech or policies of the people exercising their right to freedom of speech do not incite prejudice against a faction of society.

In the case of the BNP party in the 1990s, which were made up and lead by people who were involved in race hate, and other forms of blatant discrimination, based on their neo nazi world view. I am afraid they did break these
fundamental of human rights (at least to American's). Some, whom were known to me, as they grew up in the same
strange little island that i live on, were also known for extremely violent race hate crimes which included at least one man who was convicted of race hate murder.

Nonetheless, I was living at a then mates house, who was a North London Uni, who also was well into punk and techno.
Who also happened to be a bit of an activist.

Now, i was never a punk in style or ethos. I am not an anarchist, as i believe great things can be achieved by society with people working together, although, I am an idealist egalitarian utopian at heart, but understand that such a dream is too hard for the present state of the human race to achieve, but hey, never say never, as that's what dreams are for. to make them reality...

I also realise that most forms of anarchy result in chaos, and that many people who subscribe to punk ethos, are often just using it as a way to superficially rebel against their parents, or in more worse cases, exploit the lack of moral code to justify stealing from decent honest hard working people by claiming the old Native American Indian concept of "all property is theft"

The all property is theft concepts comes from the idea that some tribes of Native American Indians had no concept of property or ownership.
They were nomadic in nature, so did not own land. The Great Spirit owns land not the Great Spirits creations.

So, some westerners who read about their culture thought that this was a great way to alleviate other wealthier people who they knew from the burden of possessions, but it wasn't theft. it was ok because being a punk meant that they were western native american indians?....

What a great deal of these so called punks forgot however, is that a great deal of Native American Indian tribes were also fearless proud and highly skilled warriors who would literally murder anyone that pissed them off/

in my book, i think that if people were robbing me because of their punk ethos, then it would by punk law give me the right to scalp the light fingered little crap bags. this is because i am not a scavenger Punk but a Warrior Punk...lol

So, yes. All property is theft, but dont forget the second rule. make me angry and i scalp you with my tomahawk.
..... only joking, but i bet ya anything how
funny it would be to see the light fingered punk "rebels" pants get filled when anyone pulls out a tomahawk on them and goes to scalp them.... but there ya go. not that i condone such behavior....

but i think you can understand what i mean.... you cant cherry pick from history kids, you are either a native american indian punk or you are not a native american indian punk.... (if your not a punk, then time to shave off your mo hawk).

but anyway i digress.

Yes. many years ago i ended up going on this peace march protest against the BNP getting into power,
and there were thousands of people all in the same area. All crammed down a few long streets.

It was extremely scary, as all these people crammed packed in a few streets, with a big line of police in riot gear at the end of the street, which was done in order to prevent the peace marchers from walking past the BNP HQ, where neo nazis were walking in and out of in their classic skinhead gear. Bomber jacket, boots, skin head. etc.

At the march, as well as the peaceful peace marchers were a number of groups that i guess you could call antifa
and a few others, such as class war, the anti nazi league etc.
And at some point someone started knocking down someones's garden wall and started throwing bricks at the police.

Which perhaps was inevitable, as the police were obstructing the march, but of course, they were doing so also in order to prevent other types of trouble.

To be honest, i think that some people really like these types of events. they get a buzz from a good conflict with the fuzz etc. however, i have to admit, i did witness innocent people get hurt. I mean, there were several thousand people in the same place. There were also loads of police, some on horseback and some armed with rubber bullets and smoke grenades

There also wasn't much room to move, and it was all pretty chaotic and scary.
I myself, wasn't into violence with random people, although it wasn't so much because of fear,
it was more because i didn't see the point to target policemen who i didn't know, who likely had families
and who were probably nice enough people just doing a job (not that I think all police are and in fact, have
been subjected to terrible victimisation from the police in my own area, but which is hard to stop or prevent,
due to the size of the island that i live on).

Nonetheless, my mate, who was into throwing bricks did get stuck in and started throwing bricks at the police.
With a scarf wrapped around his face, he really enjoyed the experience.

Now, with regards to why people do these things. I think that in some cases sure people need to fight for what they believe in. I do not necessarily think that open air war fare at riots is the best solution to achieve the desired results.
I mean, what can you expect to achieve from such madness.

I think that perhaps those who oppose neo nazis need to get as organised and as underhanded as the neo nazi's.
As i know that the neo nazi's fight covertly these days, and get their hooks in what ever industry they can that they can use their position or power to hurt anyone who they see as their enemy.

Imagine, a covert neo nazi doctor, path lab assistant, police man, ambulance driver, midwife or even politician (sorry, for the bad language). Imagine what damage they could do to innocent people who they see as their enemies or people who they deem as unworthy of existence.

This includes people with Autism Spectrum Disorder. On the nazi's list for eradication for being inferior.

But there ya go. It is unfortunate that race even exists, as life would be a great deal easier if we could all learn to live together and help the human race achieve our collective goals together. I am not saying i am communist or capitalist or any other political faction. All that politics just bad in my experience.

I am humanitarian. I vote for humanity. No faction. One big family. As free of prejudice and hate as possible.
Working towards the same aim.

But there ya go.
That's my experience. I think riots suck really, although i can see why some would like the buzz.
Thing is, even by the time i was 20, i was years ahead of my mates who were looking for adrenaline buzzes
as i grew up doing kart racing and full contact karate. so. a riot to me was just a waste of energy and hurting
people i didn't know.

there are better solutions.



Last edited by madbutnotmad on 02 Jul 2019, 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

madbutnotmad
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02 Jul 2019, 7:38 pm

sorry for the double post.

Btw loads of people got hurt at this riot. including a number of people who got stamped on by the police horses as the police rode them into the crowd.

What was extremely suspicious at the time was that the riot didn't reach the news.
Perhaps cause so many got injured.

Probably a few police got injured as well.
I didn't, i stood and watched. As i didn't have much choice.

If i tried to stop the riot, people would have thrown bricks at me instead. as when people are full of adrenaline
they are ready to lash out at everyone.

So... what can one do?....
interestingly enough, a few weeks later, my friend was arrested for kicking a police car while in a sweat as the car
drove past.

And when he got to the police station he noticed a wanted poster on the wall of himself....
but the police didn't do anything. Apparently his photo was one of about 30 that was printed in the national papers.
But hey. that's life i guess.



madbutnotmad
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02 Jul 2019, 7:47 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
Antifa are the new Brownshirts.

is that statement true, or are some news channels printing misinformation/disinformation,
to confuse and to drive hatred into the hearts of the people so as to stop
a movement that would stop fascism.

Don't get me wrong, i am neither white supremacist nor antifa
I don't believe in race hate or condone prejudice (apart from against gingers... but not beautiful red heads...lol)

But i think that their is a great deal of propaganda about these days
in fact, what isn't propaganda?....

So hard to know what to believe.
Perhaps the real antifa's can wear Rata Tam's or something, to make it easier for everyone to tell who is who.
Or perhaps like in Judo, the Antifa can wear blue suits and the neo nazi's can wear white suits with pointy hoods.
Then we will all be happy because we know who is who.

Personally i think that all this anti fa and white supremacy is pent up sexual repression..... lol...



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02 Jul 2019, 7:58 pm

Antifa, concealing their faces with masks to commit crimes under the protection of group anonymity. Isn’t this the same and primary tactic of the Ku Klux Klan?

The silence about this from most of the democratic presidential candidates is an abomination. They had their chance to refute this repugnant behavior and they did not.



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02 Jul 2019, 8:04 pm

The basic principle that unites the various groups under the Antifa umbrella is that inaction against the brownshirts in Italy, Japan and Germany in the 1920s and 1930s gave rise to fascism which resulted in the deaths of more than 100 million people across Europe and Asia. The appeasement of Nazis and lack of action by the German people allowed the rise of Hilter and the holocaust of millions of innocent people in the name of racial purity.

Mark Bray, author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, says the modern American Antifa movement began in the 1980s with a group called Anti-Racist Action. Its members confronted neo-Nazi skinheads at punk gigs in the American Midwest and elsewhere who were on the rise back then. By the early 2000s the Antifa movement was mostly dormant - until the rise of Donald Trump and the alt-right bought them back.

The Alt-right in the US and Europe are primarily united on maintaining the purity of what they call the "white race" and given Trump seems to be largely ineffective and even conciliatory toward these groups (he and his son famously re-tweeted posts from ultra-far right politicians) antifa feel they must defend humanity from the rise of this vile movement.

Although I do not support violence, sometimes you have to defend yourself.



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02 Jul 2019, 8:05 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
Antifa, concealing their faces with masks to commit crimes under the protection of group anonymity. Isn’t this the same and primary tactic of the Ku Klux Klan?.


Probably worried about police and fascist retribution



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02 Jul 2019, 8:13 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:
Antifa, concealing their faces with masks to commit crimes under the protection of group anonymity. Isn’t this the same and primary tactic of the Ku Klux Klan?.


Probably worried about police and fascist retribution

More likely worried their parents will see them on TV, evict them from the basement and terminate their allowances.



Banjo54
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02 Jul 2019, 8:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
The basic principle that unites the various groups under the Antifa umbrella is that inaction against the brownshirts in Italy, Japan and Germany in the 1920s and 1930s gave rise to fascism which resulted in the deaths of more than 100 million people across Europe and Asia. The appeasement of Nazis and lack of action by the German people allowed the rise of Hilter and the holocaust of millions of innocent people in the name of racial purity.

Mark Bray, author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, says the modern American Antifa movement began in the 1980s with a group called Anti-Racist Action. Its members confronted neo-Nazi skinheads at punk gigs in the American Midwest and elsewhere who were on the rise back then. By the early 2000s the Antifa movement was mostly dormant - until the rise of Donald Trump and the alt-right bought them back.

The Alt-right in the US and Europe are primarily united on maintaining the purity of what they call the "white race" and given Trump seems to be largely ineffective and even conciliatory toward these groups (he and his son famously re-tweeted posts from ultra-far right politicians) antifa feel they must defend humanity from the rise of this vile movement.

Although I do not support violence, sometimes you have to defend yourself.

They aren't only attacking the Alt-Right, though. It'd be one thing if they were only attacking Neo-Nazis. However, the reality seems to be that they'll call almost anyone on the right a Nazi if, in order to justify their actions, they must do so.



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02 Jul 2019, 8:19 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
More likely worried their parents will see them on TV, evict them from the basement and terminate their allowances.

Image


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madbutnotmad
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02 Jul 2019, 8:20 pm

I believe people wear masks so as to hide ones identity due to the illegal nature of violence in riots.
The only similarity with the Klu Klutz Klan appear to be with the wearing of some form of mask to hide the wearers identity and the use of violence to achieve ones means.

I think that is however where the similarities stop.
From my basic understanding of what antifa is, it is made up of people who don't necessarily lynch people or even people who belong to a highly organised terror group.

From my basic understanding, and it is basic. It is more a loosely organised group of people who use violence at riots, perhaps with some that simply enjoy violence for violence sake in a similar way to football (soccer) hooligans enjoy a violent engagement which perhaps is rooted in the archetypal heritage clan stereotypes.

Antifa from what i know of them are anti-fascist, anti race hate. and are willing to use violence to stop people who are pro race hate, and pro fascist.

Those who are antifa may have resorted to using violence to stop the fascists because of the way that fascists
do things, i.e. covertly, with slander, lies, misinformation, cloak and dagger, and of course violence! Which they may even attempt to pass off as "magic" (as their lies, slander and misinformation is like a power warlock casting a spell over the people. what a powerful warlock.... personally i think such a way of looking at things is extremely immature or delusional)...

This ethos makes antifa considerably different to that of the Klu Klutz Klan, who i believe were highly racist and white supremacist in nature.

I am not a member of any terror group.
I am humanitarian in ethos.



madbutnotmad
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02 Jul 2019, 8:22 pm

Darmok wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:
More likely worried their parents will see them on TV, evict them from the basement and terminate their allowances.

Image


Wish I had a basement to live in, think of the cheap rent and all those mushrooms that i could make friends with...
I am not an antifa or white supremacist. I am a humanitarian...



madbutnotmad
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02 Jul 2019, 8:29 pm

the problem is, what if neo nazi's who subscribe to WW2 nazi values did take over the world?
what would that mean to people such as ourselves who belong to one of the groups that the neo nazis
regard as subspecies or poor or inferior specimens of the human race to be placed on the list for extermination.

I mean, its hard enough as it is to stay alive with all these covert psycho's working in the various industries that have
power over people, such as the police / health care / politics / entertainment / journalism
imagine if the laws changed and it was suddenly acceptable to murder "inferior" specimens.

I guess that is why these people fight.



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02 Jul 2019, 8:31 pm

Violence as a means of shutting others down is disgusting behavior. If someone is attempting to kill me, I'll react violently. If someone has a different stance than I do, I just mind my business and don't give 'em an audience. It's so ridiculous to think that smashing someone upside the head is 'resistance' in the US. There were 40 million more guns than there were people in 2013. When the bullets are flying in both directions, from sea to shining sea, that's resistance. Everything else is just a tantrum...


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