Why do almost all 'incels' blame their situation on looks?

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Mona Pereth
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14 Sep 2019, 5:01 pm

LookWhoItIs wrote:
I think you're reading too much into my post. I was just agreeing with the person that incels are deluded if they think the American South will be better for them.

I agree, due to the male-to-female ratio being generally higher in rural areas than in urban areas. Also I would suspect that most men in the "incel" world aren't religious, which would put them in even less demand amongst Bible Belt women.


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Mona Pereth
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14 Sep 2019, 5:04 pm

Here, on the previous page of this thread:

Mona Pereth wrote:
We also need more of us to recognize that good leadership skills may actually be easier for many autistic people to learn than some of the more everyday social arts that many of us struggle with.

More about this in the separate thread Learning LEADERSHIP skills: Not as hard as you might think?.


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14 Sep 2019, 10:22 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
LookWhoItIs wrote:
I think you're reading too much into my post. I was just agreeing with the person that incels are deluded if they think the American South will be better for them.

I agree, due to the male-to-female ratio being generally higher in rural areas than in urban areas. Also I would suspect that most men in the "incel" world aren't religious, which would put them in even less demand amongst Bible Belt women.


Actually, most incel men are religious. Some even want the Western world to be “Islamisized” because they think it will destroy Secularism as well as Feminism and will elevate men. Another incel is also married and he wants a Christian theocracy to happen in the USA. He also hates all “Western sluts” and tells other men to go abroad to “Christian nations” to get a girlfriend or wife. He’s married to an Asian woman who he says laughs at Feminism as well as Women’s Rights and was raised to be subservient to men. He says being a White man in Asia gave him an advantage while being one in America doomed him.



LookWhoItIs
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15 Sep 2019, 12:01 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
LookWhoItIs wrote:
I think you're reading too much into my post. I was just agreeing with the person that incels are deluded if they think the American South will be better for them.

I agree, due to the male-to-female ratio being generally higher in rural areas than in urban areas. Also I would suspect that most men in the "incel" world aren't religious, which would put them in even less demand amongst Bible Belt women.


Some incels are religious; some aren't. Incels aren't monolithic...I have known some from many different backgrounds. However, there are some recurring traits. One is that incels tend to be nerdy and introverted...that isn't going to sell well in the South with its (somewhat) anti-intellectual tradition. Some southern women may not necessarily like bad boys, but they often do like jocks/athletes.



LookWhoItIs
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15 Sep 2019, 12:06 am

Marknis wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
LookWhoItIs wrote:
I think you're reading too much into my post. I was just agreeing with the person that incels are deluded if they think the American South will be better for them.

I agree, due to the male-to-female ratio being generally higher in rural areas than in urban areas. Also I would suspect that most men in the "incel" world aren't religious, which would put them in even less demand amongst Bible Belt women.


Actually, most incel men are religious. Some even want the Western world to be “Islamisized” because they think it will destroy Secularism as well as Feminism and will elevate men. Another incel is also married and he wants a Christian theocracy to happen in the USA. He also hates all “Western sluts” and tells other men to go abroad to “Christian nations” to get a girlfriend or wife. He’s married to an Asian woman who he says laughs at Feminism as well as Women’s Rights and was raised to be subservient to men. He says being a White man in Asia gave him an advantage while being one in America doomed him.


I'm not a fan of the "going abroad" solution, but I think it's a fallacy to say they just want a woman who is subservient to them. Many incels would actually rather have an aggressive woman. The reason men go abroad looking for women is because, quite simply, they can't find any willing to date them in their own country.



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15 Sep 2019, 12:45 am

Men's issues are ignored or dismissed, they are told to man up or get over it. Men work against each other and tear each other down and act negatively and aggressively towards each other. Women have heaps of support groups. Women provide support and work together to resolve issues and they act in a proactive positive way. The problem is the difference in how the two genders: male and female deal with each other.



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15 Sep 2019, 1:31 am

Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Men's issues are ignored or dismissed, they are told to man up or get over it. Men work against each other and tear each other down and act negatively and aggressively towards each other. Women have heaps of support groups. Women provide support and work together to resolve issues and they act in a proactive positive way. The problem is the difference in how the two genders: male and female deal with each other.

One of the things that bothers me at a deeper level about this situation, ie. I'm talking to a friend on Facebook right now about a related issue, is that people don't think meta or about these problems seriously unless they themselves are losing the game. That makes the whole thing seem even more iron-clad hopeless, not just for incels and femcels but for our likelihood of not either going extinct or having 90% of our population die off from some preventable catastrophe leaving a deeply damaged planet to posterity.

Sometimes flossing your brain with a healthy astringent pessimism helps though.

Image


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15 Sep 2019, 4:47 am

Marknis wrote:
Actually, most incel men are religious.

If so, that's apparently being expressed only in private forums, not in any public media reachable via Google. When I tried Googling "Christian incel," "Muslim incel," and "incel Islam," I didn't come across anything to suggest that very many incels were actual serious believers in either Christianity or Islam.

I did come across indications that some incels are attracted to traditional male-supremacist aspects of these religions, but that's not the same thing as being an actual adherent. I also came across a group of Christians into male supremacist "red pill" ideology, but not incel ideology per se.

I also came across various groups of Christians who feel sorry for incels and want to evangelize them.

Marknis wrote:
Some even want the Western world to be “Islamisized” because they think it will destroy Secularism as well as Feminism and will elevate men. Another incel is also married and he wants a Christian theocracy to happen in the USA.

If he's married he's not an incel, though he's apparently into male supremacist ideology, as you described.

I also came across some stuff about white nationalists wanting something they call "white Sharia," which would not be an actual conversion to Islam but rather a white male supremacist social system with some parallels to traditional Islamic law.


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15 Sep 2019, 8:46 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
If he's married he's not an incel, though he's apparently into male supremacist ideology, as you described.
A married man can definitely be an incel. If he doesn't act in ways that makes his wife desire him sexually---and romantic dinners aren't it---there will be no sex. Thus, incel. Although within marriage, it's often also referred to as "dead bedroom".

I'd explain the underlying mechanics of it all, but I don't want to get issued a warning yet again. Google is your friend.



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15 Sep 2019, 9:04 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
A married man can definitely be an incel.

You're right. There is certainly such a thing as sexless marriage. I was thinking of an "incel" as being a person who is unable to get into a relationship as well as being unable to have sex. If "incel" is defined only in terms of sex, then, yes, there can be such a thing as a married incel.

Aspie1 wrote:
If he doesn't act in ways that makes his wife desire him sexually---and romantic dinners aren't it---there will be no sex. Thus, incel. Although within marriage, it's often also referred to as "dead bedroom".

I'd explain the underlying mechanics of it all, but I don't want to get issued a warning yet again. Google is your friend.

I hope you aren't claiming to be an expert on what will or won't work for all women. Who knows, romantic dinners might do it for some women, though not for all.


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17 Sep 2019, 3:20 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
sly279 wrote:
There’s one at a church but it meets Wednesday nights when I work.

Is there any chance you'll eventually be able to work something other than evening shift? Your hours seem to cause you a lot of problems.

sly279 wrote:
All other autistic stuff cost money and is done through kindtree a for profit(apparently) group.

Oh there was another but it also meets on my work day night and I went once and was never greeted, and left to sit alone in the corner, everyone had their groups and kept to them.

Not a well-run group, apparently. I'm very sorry to hear this. Alas, failure to welcome newcomers is a common problem in groups of all sorts, in my experience.

sly279 wrote:
Such a group should have nt person leading it who makes everyone introduce each other and interact.

The leader doesn't need to be NT but does need to be a competent leader. Some of us are capable of being decent leaders even though we may lack other kinds of social abilities.

Here in NYC, Aspies for Social Success is led by an Aspie man who is basically a good leader (though I have some minor quibbles with his leadership style). Among other desirable leadership qualities, he's at least decent (though not perfect) at welcoming newcomers. I'm certainly not a perfect leader myself either, but I've had quite a bit of experience leading small discussion groups of various kinds and I think I'm pretty good at it. (I recently started leading a small discussion group for autistic people here in Queens.)

One thing the autistic community desperately needs, in my opinion, is more leaders. To that end we need leadership training. We also need more of us to recognize that good leadership skills may actually be easier for many autistic people to learn than some of the more everyday social arts that many of us struggle with.

sly279 wrote:
It was all men too.

This is a problem that feeds on itself, since many women don't like being, and may even be afraid to be, the only woman in a group. I try to arrive early at any support groups I attend, for various reasons; one of my reasons is so that any other woman who shows up will realize she isn't the only woman.


Or unless they fire me next week after my review. I tried to adjust my schedule but got told no few times.

The group is run by nt. It’s done by kindtree. They just didn’t do any introductions or anything.

I also think women seem to need groups less. Friends seem to come easier to women I’ve noticed. Relationships too. The only female aspies I’ve met locally lately are all in relationships and most new women aspies here are in relationships and have friends. Imagine they simulate have no reason for groups.



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17 Sep 2019, 3:47 am

Aspie1 wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
If he's married he's not an incel, though he's apparently into male supremacist ideology, as you described.
A married man can definitely be an incel. If he doesn't act in ways that makes his wife desire him sexually---and romantic dinners aren't it---there will be no sex. Thus, incel. Although within marriage, it's often also referred to as "dead bedroom".


It goes both ways. I'm sure there are married women that don't get as much sex as they desire either. In regards to NDs, this is mostly an incompatibility issue.



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17 Sep 2019, 8:00 pm

Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Men's issues are ignored or dismissed, they are told to man up or get over it. Men work against each other and tear each other down and act negatively and aggressively towards each other. Women have heaps of support groups. Women provide support and work together to resolve issues and they act in a proactive positive way. The problem is the difference in how the two genders: male and female deal with each other.


I do think incels not being taken seriously (or in many cases, being reviled) has at least something to do with the fact that most are straight white males (though straight Asian males are over-represented among them).

And yeah men who aren't incel often aren't very sympathetic, or they give very cliche advice. And incels also have a tendency to tear each other down.



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02 Oct 2019, 8:44 am

Are they aware of their social difficulties yet for some reason ashamed of them and would rather believe their problem lies in their supposedly subpar looks instead, or are they really just lacking in self-awareness and their autism gives them a flawed understanding of social interactions and leads them to think that sex and social relationships are things that just automatically occur after one passes a certain threshold in physical attractiveness?


It's both. They watch girls go for attractive men who have no social skills or who are mean. They assume these relationships last because they don't stick around to watch them fall apart. They still never got over being outside of the "in" crowd.(middle-school mentality) They are not secure enough with themselves to realize that maybe they should stop asking "super-model" types out. They may stand fantastic chances with less coveted women. Sometimes I think that these INCELS are covert narcissists with autistic spectrum disorders. Period. That's it. It's in the DNA. People like this should be rounded up, arrested but not in the criminal sense and rehabilitated to whatever extent they can be.



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02 Oct 2019, 8:49 am

RightGalaxy wrote:
... They watch girls go for attractive men who have no social skills or who are mean. They assume these relationships last because they don't stick around to watch them fall apart. They still never got over being outside of the "in" crowd. They are not secure enough with themselves to realize that maybe they should stop asking "super-model" types out...
They also seem to expect no lag-time between the introduction and the consummation. That is, they all seem to expect that something like "Hello, my name is ______. Wanna f████?" to be met with immediate affirmation and gratification.


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