El Paso mall shooting: At least 15 dead, 1 in custody

Page 8 of 9 [ 140 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

08 Aug 2019, 4:00 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brendan tarrant directly attributed Trump before killing 50 innocent people in NZ....The El Paso shooter's manifesto used trump type language....


The El Paso shooter specifically discredited Trump as a motivator.

If he had written 'Trump made me do it' you would be going on and on about it.

But since he wrote 'Trump had nothing to do with it' it is like you want to pretend he did not say that.

So that kinda leaves one. Two if you want to disregard his disclaimer.

I was expecting a higher number with the huge amount of terrorism Trump is supposed to be generating.


Sorry Ezra...you bombed on that one
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/patrick- ... p-twitter/


I am going by what the shooter himself said.

Image

Heavy dot com is reaching.

cyberdad wrote:
Also prefer to follow science rather than WP trump fan club
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... e-crimes1/


^
"Although suggestive, these connections do not prove that Trump’s social media messages caused the spike in crimes. "



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,591

08 Aug 2019, 4:13 am

I'll give you that...normally correlation is not causation but in this case all the signs seem to be there.

Crassius was even using the same language trump used in his speech.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,591

08 Aug 2019, 4:17 am

BTW his tweets indicate that he might have carried his views pre-2016 but Trump seems to have tipped him over the edge...



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

08 Aug 2019, 4:27 am

cyberdad wrote:
BTW his tweets indicate that he might have carried his views pre-2016 but Trump seems to have tipped him over the edge...


According to him Trump had nothing to do with it. He made it clear that saying Trump infulenced him is incorrect. Which cancels out speculation or a weak attempt at connecting dots by Heavy dot com or whoever.

My pointing that out has nothing to with defending Crusius or Trump, it is just simply the way it is wherher anyone likes it or not.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,591

08 Aug 2019, 4:32 am

He was praising Trump on Twitter...seems pretty clear cut to me...



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

08 Aug 2019, 4:38 am

cyberdad wrote:
He was praising Trump on Twitter...seems pretty clear cut to me...


What is clear cut is that he made it clear that he was not influenced by Trump.

Face it, he peed in your Cheerios and left you without a pot to pee in.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,591

08 Aug 2019, 4:40 am

Its not like Trump need to be driving the getaway car...his influence was self-evident



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

08 Aug 2019, 4:47 am

cyberdad wrote:
Its not like Trump need to be driving the getaway car...his influence was self-evident


According to Crusius Trump's influence was nil nada zip zero zilch.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,591

09 Aug 2019, 2:05 am

To me it's not. He might have been maintaining a particular level of white supremacist attitude before 2016 but his subsequent tweets praising Trump indicating there was some effect that propelled him to be a mass killer.



Persephone29
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,752
Location: Everville

09 Aug 2019, 6:27 am

cyberdad wrote:
To me it's not. He might have been maintaining a particular level of white supremacist attitude before 2016 but his subsequent tweets praising Trump indicating there was some effect that propelled him to be a mass killer.



I need clarification: what exactly constitutes a white supremacist attitude?

Because if it's speaking out against lax borders, I disagree. If I crossed the Canadian border without permission, I would expect to be seized and deported. I'm white. ( I would never cross a border without permission, btw. But for the sake of argument... )

Is it telling malcontents of color to leave? If so, I disagree. The operative word is "malcontents," not color. I was a malcontent at a job once, they invited me to leave. I'm white. My husband 'unfriended' his white friend for constantly picking fights with his other friends on FB. The guy just straight up hated everything about my husband, so it seemed pointless to maintain a friendship.

Obviously, opening up in a Wal-Mart is not something I have endorsed or engaged in. But, has anyone even released the identities of these victims yet, to see if they are all brown? I know of 3 already who are white. In contrast, the OHIO shooter who was a liberal, shot an equal if not higher number of blacks. If you are a mass shooter and you take the time to see what color your victims are before you shoot them, you will not make much progress.

It just seems to me that more and more, the definition of white supremacy, is anyone who speaks out against a person of color. How can anyone claim to be a member of the human race and expect that no one will ever have a problem with them just because of race? If you're a human, someone is going to take issue with you at some point in this life. Why would you want it to be otherwise? That's equality. If you're the Queen of England and no one ever corrects you, that's not equality. That's superiority.

And that's what I think you're after, Cyberdad. You aren't after equality, you're after superiority. The very superiority you hate in the white race, that of being treated better for no other reason than the color of skin. If it no longer serves the plight of whites ( more and more, it doesn't ), it won't work for people of color.

If a white person is an azzhole, the get it. If a person of color is an azzhole, they get it. And that's the equality I'm working for and hope to see in my lifetime.


_________________
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate you, it just means we disagree.


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

09 Aug 2019, 9:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
To me it's not. He might have been maintaining a particular level of white supremacist attitude before 2016 but his subsequent tweets praising Trump indicating there was some effect that propelled him to be a mass killer.


Show me those tweets where Patrick Crusius in his own words is praising Trump.

Especially in a way that contradicts what he said in writing, that he was not influenced by Trump.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 71,565
Location: Queens, NYC

09 Aug 2019, 9:21 am

A “white supremacist” attitude is one where white people feel people of other races are inferior to them—merely by virtue of them being “not white.”

Many mass murders have white supremacy as at least part of the ideological bent of the murderer. Many don’t.

The Dayton person was more than just a fanatical liberal. The El Paso person was more than just a fanatical American nativist.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 71,565
Location: Queens, NYC

09 Aug 2019, 9:26 am

The El Paso guy posted a picture of the name TRUMP spelled out via various guns.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

09 Aug 2019, 10:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The El Paso guy posted a picture of the name TRUMP spelled out via various guns.


That was posted by someone calling himself "John doe @juhhhjgghk".

Image



Wolfram87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,976
Location: Sweden

09 Aug 2019, 10:54 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Dayton person was more than just a fanatical liberal.


I don't know by what metric you think he was a liberal at all.

Connor Betts wrote:
“I want socialism, and I’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round understanding.”


_________________
I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.


jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 72
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,729
Location: Indiana

09 Aug 2019, 10:57 am

Shortly before Patrick Crusius murdered 22 people and injured more than two dozen in El Paso, Texas, he declared in a manifesto posted on the website 8chan that he was trying to stop a "Hispanic invasion of Texas." But there was also a distinctly environmental theme to his screed: part of a lesser-known far-right strain called eco-fascism.

The El Paso shooter named his manifesto "An Inconvenient Truth," presumably after Al Gore's 2006 climate change documentary. "The decimation of the environment is creating a massive burden for future generations. Corporations are heading the destruction of our environment by shamelessly overharvesting resources," he wrote. "If we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can be more sustainable." He also blamed America's consumer culture for environmental damage.

Crusius also claimed that he was inspired by the shooter in Christchurch, New Zealand, who killed 51 people at two mosques and, in his own rambling manifesto, referred to himself as an "eco-fascist." He described immigration as "environmental warfare," and claimed "there is no nationalism without environmentalism."

The shootings in both El Paso and Christchurch, New Zealand are the latest examples of a new kind of ecoterrorism. According to the FBI, ecoterrorism is "the use or threatened use of violence of a criminal nature against innocent victims or property by an environmentally-oriented, subnational group for environmental-political reasons, or aimed at an audience beyond the target, often of a symbolic nature." For many, this likely evokes the image of tree-huggers with bolt-cutters, like the Animal Liberation Front which started breaking into animal testing labs in the '80s, releasing test subjects and destroying equipment.

But eco-fascism is not the fringe hippie movement usually associated with ecoterrorism. It's a belief that the only way to deal with climate change is through eugenics and the brutal suppression of migrants. The movement's founding father was Madison Grant, who started the first organizations dedicated to protecting California redwoods and American buffalo. He was also a staunch supporter of race science who, as president of the Bronx Zoo, put Ota Benga, a member of the Mbuti tribe kidnapped from Congo, on display in a cage with apes in 1906. He published The Passing of the Great Race, or The Racial Basis of European History in 1916, warning of the decline of the "Nordic" race, and wrote elsewhere that his generation had "the responsibility of saying what forms of life shall be preserved." His racial theory inspired Anders Breivik, the man who massacred 77 people at a Norwegian youth camp in 2011. But his fusion of white supremacy and environmental conservation also lingers.

Eco-fascism relies heavily on a concept called "deep ecology," the idea that the only way to preserve life on Earth is to dramatically—forcefully, if necessary—reduce the human population. It's best summed up by "lifeboat ethics," as eco-fascist and radical ecologist Pentti Linkola put it: "When the lifeboat is full, those who hate life will try to load it with more people and sink the lot. Those who love and respect life will take the ship’s axe and sever the extra hands that cling to the sides."

Eco-fascists today believe that the size of the human population is not only putting a strain on natural resources, but also that masses of displaced people will be a threat to state and cultural stability in a seemingly inevitable post-climate change world. Like more garden variety white nationalists, they believe that allowing migrants into the U.S., or other "white" nations, is suicide. Or, to borrow a phrase that crops up in far-right memes and neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer, "Save trees, not refugees." Writing for the New Statesman in 2018, Sarah Manavis described eco-fascism as growing online community awash with tree and mountain emojis, plus runic symbols taken from Heinrich Himmler's SS, the Nazi Party's paramilitary organization. The umbrella term "eco-fascism" covers a lot of different ideas, but Manavis found some consistent themes, including "veganism, anti-multiculturalism, white nationalism, anti-single-use plastic, anti-Semitism, and, almost always, a passionate interest in Norse mythology."

Source: What Is Eco-Fascism, the Ideology Behind Attacks in El Paso and Christchurch?


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."