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sly279
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14 Aug 2019, 5:19 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Just a thought: how old does a gun design have to be to be considered "vintage" or old-fashioned? Because the armalite design has been around for half a Century by now and is still the archetypical "modern black evil rifle shooting 6000 shots per second from an infinite magazine clip (and god help us all if it has the shoulder thing that goes up)".

They actually c&r guns now and ones from 1960s can be shipped to your house if you have c&r license.
So they’re vintage now lol.
Anti gun people act like simi auto was just invented in the 1990s. It’s been around since 1700s. It’s old tech.


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sly279
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14 Aug 2019, 5:27 pm

Got my thumb caught in sis bolt closing once. Hurt a lot.

I really need to try calling colt again this week about my new 1911 issues.

As for old guns I have a Turkish Mauser. Next is the sks.


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madbutnotmad
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14 Aug 2019, 5:51 pm

Well i can understand to some extent the beauty of the form in some gun designs.
Purely to do with the pure shapes, quality materials used (often metal) and the casting.
In some ways they are like pieces of art, a great deal of design has gone into them,
and in many ways i guess, in a similar way that musicians love their instruments.
I could understand why some would become attached or fond of having them.

I can also understand why people would want to own them if they live in a country where
their is a high amount of firearms, other weapons but also crime.

If i had a choice however, of living in a country that allows firearms or living in a country that
has no firearms.

I would always choose a country without firearms 100% of the time.

Now, i respect your opinions on this subject, as i have only been to the US once, and that was in the late 80s,
so i can't appreciate the US pop love for firearms. Perhaps it is something that comes from becoming attached to possessions as well as the need to defend oneself. I guess a firearm becomes your best friend in many cases.

I was wondering what other reasons why people are attracted to firearm ownership?



Wolfram87
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15 Aug 2019, 7:31 am

Raptor wrote:
I actually have an AG-42b. It's dated 1945.


nice! 8)

There really is a shortage of decent semi-autos in 6.5.Which is a shame, because it's a damned nice cartridge.

*wonders if I can claim some BS about "cultural artifacts" and make you hand it over XD*

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As you might have guessed from one of my recent posts in this thread, I could care less about helping the anti's understand anything. I used to be patient and civil with them but to no avail so now I just treat them like dirt if I bother with them at all.


Guess I haven't had the time to become quite that fed up with them, yet. I'm sure it'll happen eventually


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Wolfram87
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15 Aug 2019, 2:14 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
I was wondering what other reasons why people are attracted to firearm ownership?


Manifold reasons:

Some people are history buffs and want to own guns for their historical value and shoot the guns from back when. Overlaps with collectors who are interested in the timeline and development of guns from an engineering point of view, collecting several iterations of the same sort of guns to show the changes over time. Some people enjoy the craftmanship, the form-meets-function design aspect of gunsmithing. Some people are soldiers, hunters and marksmen, and each have their own way of relating to and appreaciating their guns. And there is an undeniable feeling of power that comes from having lightning in your hand.

And some people just never got over that boyish love for things that go "boom". :)


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cberg
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15 Aug 2019, 2:23 pm

I'm all for a gun ban, American gun owners are so cocky about being entitled to hoard weapons that I don't imagine hardly anyone would surrender any guns. I'm getting pretty tired of the strawman argument that law-abiding gun owners have no ulterior motives. Fundamentally, gun owners reserve the right to kill people. In a state of nature, everyone has some defenses & offensive capability.

Do I appreciate what these things are? Sure, I know how to shoot quite effectively. If you all think my owning a gun would be so vitally important, just donate me one from your ridiculous collection! It can collect dust & shoot cans. IMO guns aren't much good for anything else unless you want to live on other mammals. Bullets are not a shield & they're also not reliable technology.

Just stay off my lawn, you never know what I might do with industrial lasers.


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15 Aug 2019, 4:41 pm

That post seems a little bit emotional.

Just yesterday evening, very late, I ended up getting death threats & obscenities yelled at me by a cad in a pickup truck (after he very nearly ran my compact car off the road) so no, I think I shall, as you phrased it, "reserve the right to kill someone." For if someone threatens my own right to be alive, I shall do what it takes to preserve it. There's no way a tiny little man like myself is taking down a massive wannabe gangsta, unless, of course, I have a fire-arm. All I had was the tire jack from the old car. Not a lot of range.

(To the gun owners of WP, I'm thinking of getting the concealed carry permit as soon as I am able. This is not the first time people have attacked me. I want to learn how to recognize a threat, de-escalate it without even drawing a gun, and how to avoid the possibility of getting into these situations. Also, I want a backup plan if someone really does try to go after me. Around here people hate anything that seems "different.")

Where are you coming from with "bullets are not reliable technology?" Every time I've used them they did what they were supposed to, and the same goes with shotgun cartridges. The only unreliable things I have ever shot were the old percussion-cap shotguns of the Victorian era, and after we perfected the techniques with them, even those old relics could still be fired consistently.

Perhaps since they do not carry bullets, but rather three drams of small shot, they are inherently more reliable? As much as I would like to see a muzzle-loader comeback I don't think they are that reliable. They don't do well in the rain.

Industrial lasers sound cool though, but I do think you could put them to a more constructive use. They'd be pretty neat with a 3D printer--combination of traditional & additive manufacturings.


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sly279
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15 Aug 2019, 5:22 pm

Im a big and tall guy but physically weak, non violent and never been in a fight nor do I know how to fight.
So I carry a gun, cause if a fight happens I can’t defend myself otherwise. Any fight can become deadly. More people are killed by hands and feet the. Rifles or shotguns.
People have been killed by once punch alone.
So when I’m on ground having someone kick or punch the crap out of me yeah I’ll shoot them until they stop.

I don’t start fights, im very submissive. People describe me as a big cuddly teddy bear.


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cberg
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15 Aug 2019, 6:10 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
The oldest gun I have is a 1904 dated Carl Gustav M96 and it is still a serviceable and very accurate rifle.


Made in my home town. :)

Shame about our weird laws about military semi-autos, or I'd probably see about getting a Ljungman AG/42. Direct gas impingement gun in 6.5 Swedish. Would probably break my thumb loading it, though. Also kind of wish there was a carbine version.


And sure, I get what you mean when you say vintage. My point was that there's a weird divide in the eyes of non-gun people where old-timey guns are okay but modern ones are evil and dangerous, but the window for what is and isn't seen as modern doesn't seem to move.


To be fair, it's more important to curate engineering history than it is to mass produce weapons capable of mass murder. AK47s do more or less the very same thing as modern assault rifles anyway. People have been killed in countless mundane ways, that doesn't rationalize their dying any more violently.

I'm not particularly anti-gun, in the mechanism's own right anyway. Sharpshooting can be amazing & in some places it is actually safer to have one available, that said I have a good friend who was accidentally shot by his roommate & got very lucky. He's an army reservist regardless, my best friend since 2nd grade was an airborne medic. I was a scout.

I'm very much aware of both sides of the situation; I don't like guns & I'm sincerely sorry if I ever actually need to pick one up.


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15 Aug 2019, 6:17 pm

If we're going to ban a computer game, can it be Facebook?


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cberg
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15 Aug 2019, 6:19 pm

Raptor wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
The oldest gun I have is a 1904 dated Carl Gustav M96 and it is still a serviceable and very accurate rifle.


Made in my home town. :)

Shame about our weird laws about military semi-autos, or I'd probably see about getting a Ljungman AG/42. Direct gas impingement gun in 6.5 Swedish. Would probably break my thumb loading it, though. Also kind of wish there was a carbine version.

I actually have an AG-42b. It's dated 1945. The "B" being an upgrade that was incorporated in the mid 50's. I found it at a garage sale near where I lived at the time for less than half the price it was worth so I grabbed it up. The only thing missing was the black rubber ejection port buffer, one of the features added with the B mod. It works just fine without that so I went and bought some 6.5x55mm ammo I took it shooting that day. First I went online and found out how the thing works because it's not like any other semiauto, and if you don't do it right it'll smash the living s**t out of any finger that gets caught in the action when loading. The key is to keep the safety lever in the safe position whenever you have your fingers in the breech.

It came with a issue leather sling and later on I bought a bayonet, one of the night sight kits they made for them, and the tool and spare parts kit. What's irritating is that it is suggested that you lightly lube the cartridges with a light oil. This is from the translated version of the Swedish Army manual. Normally this is something that you would never do. If you don't, and as I found out the hard way, the extractor is prone to breakage. When the extractor in mine broke it was a pain in the ass just to get the old one out.

Image


Quote:
And sure, I get what you mean when you say vintage. My point was that there's a weird divide in the eyes of non-gun people where old-timey guns are okay but modern ones are evil and dangerous, but the window for what is and isn't seen as modern doesn't seem to move.

As you might have guessed from one of my recent posts in this thread, I could care less about helping the anti's understand anything. I used to be patient and civil with them but to no avail so now I just treat them like dirt if I bother with them at all. The evil AR-15 has been available since 1964 but it's mostly been the squawking from the anti-gun left that has made them so popular in more recent years. Last year when they had that ridiculous one less campaign to try and get people to ditch thier AR-15's a lot of us, including me, bought one more. :P


8O That's exactly the kind of weapon design I'd expect in a place that also had moose cavalr(y)(ies)

Sheesh I mess my hands up enough between cooking & mechanical chores.


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15 Aug 2019, 10:03 pm

Can't believe this is even a question anyone thinks about with how obvious it is.


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