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Are leftists the biggest hypocrites towards autistic issues?

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Sahn
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17 Aug 2019, 10:16 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
do you really reject any and all attempts to make the world a better place for autistic people on the mere grounds that some activists might hurt the feelings of some NTs?


I'm just very wary of people who thrust their ideas onto me and need me to outwardly agree with their every stance.

I don't think that your summary is a very direct reflection of my sentiments by the way.

I am a leftie and belong to several minority groups, I just don't make a song and dance about it.



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17 Aug 2019, 3:58 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Magna wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Is there any evidence that people on the spectrum would act as a reliable voting block?
It doesn't make any sense for a party to do what some posters are asking in return for votes if you can't depend on those votes. And how many votes are we talking about?


What you've said is sad, but true. You nailed it, actually. Think of any minority or disadvantaged group out there that The Left appears to advocate for; I would argue every one of them as a whole vote solidly Democrat.

Not solidly, but a large majority.

In any case it should be noted that left-wingers are already much more inclined than right-wingers to stand up for the rights of disabled people generally.


The left don't really care about anyone more than the right does. The left saying they care is just pretending. Those on the left still have less great intentions.



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17 Aug 2019, 4:09 pm

domineekee wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
do you really reject any and all attempts to make the world a better place for autistic people on the mere grounds that some activists might hurt the feelings of some NTs?


I'm just very wary of people who thrust their ideas onto me and need me to outwardly agree with their every stance.

I don't think that your summary is a very direct reflection of my sentiments by the way.

I am a leftie and belong to several minority groups, I just don't make a song and dance about it.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your previous post.

So you're not objecting to minority-rights movements in general, or the left's interest in same, but just the tactics and purist attitudes of the more obnoxious "SJWs"?

Also do you object in any way to the very idea of an alliance between different minority-rights movements?


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 17 Aug 2019, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
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17 Aug 2019, 4:18 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
The left don't really care about anyone more than the right does. The left saying they care is just pretending. Those on the left still have less great intentions.

On what basis do you conclude that they are "just pretending"?

It seems to me that, in almost any group of people committed to a cause, there will be both some people who are sincere and others who are just virtue signaling. But the virtue signalers would gain nothing, socially, if the sincere people did not also exist. "Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue" (François de la Rochefoucauld).

Anyhow, it seems to me that most leftists are probably ignorant of autistic people's issues, but can be educated about them.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 17 Aug 2019, 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Aug 2019, 4:20 pm

In my experience of high level politicians
Individuals that are drawn to power who stay in politics for a long time, often become amoral and self serving.

Perhaps in their youth, some had noble intentions. But as they rose to the top, such noble intentions
got lost and replaced by greed, abuse of their own power & authority, perhaps in their fight to gain and maintain power from their opposing parties.

I am afraid i personally the political party system is one of the biggest flaws in the present political system in many countries of the world.

Systems where political parties will do anything and everything to undermine their opposition so as to boost their own careers, including underhanded criminal set ups, slander, industrial espionage, accepting funding and support from less than reputable backers. In short, the political party system does breed war of types.

I do not think that the present system is the only way to run a democratic political system.
I think that it is extremely wasteful for many highly paid people spend all their time fighting to gain the power.
Spending much money, time and effort in political assassination campaigns against their various members of the opposition, including people who are good, and policies that are useful.

In the dirty game of politics, bad underhanded politicians will do anything to win, including undermine a good policy.
In which case, money gets wasted, the people's money - not the money of some bent politicians who does such things
all so as to decrease the popularity of their opposition while increasing their own parities position, in hope that one day they will gain the position that they need in order to exploit the public spending, abuse the power that the position brings and enforce their moral values or lack of moral values that their party promotes, as well as save money for their peers and thus receive rewards indirectly.

All very bad in my opinion.



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17 Aug 2019, 4:36 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
In my experience of high level politicians
Individuals that are drawn to power who stay in politics for a long time, often become amoral and self serving.

Politicians and political activists are two very different kinds of beasts, with very little in common in most cases. The goal of a politician is to get elected, whereas the goal of an activist is to advance some cause. Activists can influence politicians if there are large numbers of voters whose views the activists represent.


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17 Aug 2019, 5:35 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
So you're not objecting to minority-rights movements in general, or the left's interest in same, but just the tactics and purist attitudes of the more obnoxious "SJWs"?

^ This
I feel abused by the SJW that I knew. When it emerged that I was on the spectrum their treatment of me drastically improved. I do class their behaviour as hypocritical because they failed to see me as a complete person in both instances.

Mona Pereth wrote:
Also do you object in any way to the very idea of an alliance between different minority-rights movements?


The idea is a fine one as long as there is a clear obstacle to overcome but allies who indulge in acts of petty inteferrence, I would rather do without.



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17 Aug 2019, 6:32 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
The left don't really care about anyone more than the right does. The left saying they care is just pretending. Those on the left still have less great intentions.


Is this important? If someone expands the laws protecting me so that they can pretend to care about my rights, I am just as protected as if they had done it because they actually cared. Even if every politically engaged person is doing what they do for cynical reasons, the two political teams do different things, and that difference matters to me much more than how pure I imagine their motives to be.


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17 Aug 2019, 8:59 pm

domineekee wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
So you're not objecting to minority-rights movements in general, or the left's interest in same, but just the tactics and purist attitudes of the more obnoxious "SJWs"?

^ This
I feel abused by the SJW that I knew. When it emerged that I was on the spectrum their treatment of me drastically improved. I do class their behaviour as hypocritical because they failed to see me as a complete person in both instances.

Yes, some people (including, but not limited to, some political activists) are so narrowly focused on their goals that they fail to treat other people as complete people.

domineekee wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Also do you object in any way to the very idea of an alliance between different minority-rights movements?


The idea is a fine one as long as there is a clear obstacle to overcome but allies who indulge in acts of petty inteferrence, I would rather do without.

Could you give a specific example of the kind of petty interference you are talking about?


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17 Aug 2019, 9:29 pm

StrivingForGreatLiving wrote:
The Democrat party as a whole will fight to death for concerns of LGBT, feminist, minorities, etc. But will never spend a second talking about the inequality of autistic people in society.

I feel that autistic people are the equivalent of working class whites who used to loyally support Democrats until job trends like mass automation started decimating the rural economies. The fact that the left starts using the term “incel” to describe men with no sexual experience who are socially awkward really shows they are indifferent at best, and hostile at worst towards autistic people. Plus, most incels are just mentally ill nuts.

A lot of socially awkward men are autistic, sure not most of them. But if 5% of all socially awkward people are on the spectrum, considering a 1% rate among the population, they are 5x likely to have ASD than average.


I have not heard the republican party talking about it either, in fact I have not heard very many people talk about that in general. Also I do not think its specifically leftists who use the term incel, some people even refer to themselves as that and its not as if right wingers don't use the term...it can be used as an insult and I am sure some have insulted people with that term.

I really think people need to get rid of the incel thing, like its not good for anyone...seems like its a good way to help a person get stuck in the idea they are never good enough for a relationship and no one will like them no matter how they improve because their nose looks a little weird or they have a reoccuring pimple or they aren't lean and muscular. I don't see how the term is helpful in any way.


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17 Aug 2019, 9:46 pm

KeepOn wrote:
The thing I find difficult about many on the Left is they're SO obsessed language and they're FOREVER CHANGING what's acceptable to say or what you can and can't talk about. I think this can be difficult for many on the Autistic spectrum who tend to have less of a filter and might not be able to keep up with all the changes. It's certainly the case for me. Who remembers when they threw Autistic James Damore under the bus because he wrote a piece on a subject that's apparently taboo these days?

Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect! :roll:

Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.


Everyone has been changing language and what is acceptable to say or what you can and cannot talk about, its not a right wing or left wing thing per say...its just a society thing, people decide what is tolerated and what isn't its happened before democrats and republicans even existed.

Also the right are not non-judgemental, if you agree with them they can be but many certainly let their judgmental attitudes show when exposed to things they aren't used to...like transgender children...an absolute horror to them meanwhile in the real world its happening there are treatments to help them become the sex they prefer.

I mean bring that up to any right winger and see how non-judgmental they are about that situation. I get the impression more left wingers than right wingers would be open minded about such a topic.


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17 Aug 2019, 9:56 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
KeepOn wrote:
The thing I find difficult about many on the Left is they're SO obsessed language and they're FOREVER CHANGING what's acceptable to say or what you can and can't talk about. I think this can be difficult for many on the Autistic spectrum who tend to have less of a filter and might not be able to keep up with all the changes. It's certainly the case for me. Who remembers when they threw Autistic James Damore under the bus because he wrote a piece on a subject that's apparently taboo these days?

Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect! :roll:

Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.


Everyone has been changing language and what is acceptable to say or what you can and cannot talk about, its not a right wing or left wing thing per say...its just a society thing, people decide what is tolerated and what isn't its happened before democrats and republicans even existed.

Also the right are not non-judgemental, if you agree with them they can be but many certainly let their judgmental attitudes show when exposed to things they aren't used to...like transgender children...an absolute horror to them meanwhile in the real world its happening there are treatments to help them become the sex they prefer.

I mean bring that up to any right winger and see how non-judgmental they are about that situation. I get the impression more left wingers than right wingers would be open minded about such a topic.


I have already picked my poison.



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18 Aug 2019, 12:43 am

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
KeepOn wrote:
The thing I find difficult about many on the Left is they're SO obsessed language and they're FOREVER CHANGING what's acceptable to say or what you can and can't talk about. I think this can be difficult for many on the Autistic spectrum who tend to have less of a filter and might not be able to keep up with all the changes. It's certainly the case for me. Who remembers when they threw Autistic James Damore under the bus because he wrote a piece on a subject that's apparently taboo these days?

Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect! :roll:

Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.


Everyone has been changing language and what is acceptable to say or what you can and cannot talk about, its not a right wing or left wing thing per say...its just a society thing, people decide what is tolerated and what isn't its happened before democrats and republicans even existed.

Also the right are not non-judgemental, if you agree with them they can be but many certainly let their judgmental attitudes show when exposed to things they aren't used to...like transgender children...an absolute horror to them meanwhile in the real world its happening there are treatments to help them become the sex they prefer.

I mean bring that up to any right winger and see how non-judgmental they are about that situation. I get the impression more left wingers than right wingers would be open minded about such a topic.


I have already picked my poison.



Well that is fine to each their own, but just saying right wingers are not exactly non judgemental.

I am on the left and I do care about things...I want a healthier environment with less fossil fuel and plastic because that would benefit everyone, clean air and a healthy environment is good for all people regardless of their political views.


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18 Aug 2019, 4:16 am

Ollywog wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
The left don't really care about anyone more than the right does. The left saying they care is just pretending. Those on the left still have less great intentions.


Is this important? If someone expands the laws protecting me so that they can pretend to care about my rights, I am just as protected as if they had done it because they actually cared. Even if every politically engaged person is doing what they do for cynical reasons, the two political teams do different things, and that difference matters to me much more than how pure I imagine their motives to be.


The question I see about new laws is what good is a new law if you can't even get the current laws enforced?



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18 Aug 2019, 6:55 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
domineekee wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
So you're not objecting to minority-rights movements in general, or the left's interest in same, but just the tactics and purist attitudes of the more obnoxious "SJWs"?

^ This
I feel abused by the SJW that I knew. When it emerged that I was on the spectrum their treatment of me drastically improved. I do class their behaviour as hypocritical because they failed to see me as a complete person in both instances.

Yes, some people (including, but not limited to, some political activists) are so narrowly focused on their goals that they fail to treat other people as complete people.

domineekee wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Also do you object in any way to the very idea of an alliance between different minority-rights movements?


The idea is a fine one as long as there is a clear obstacle to overcome but allies who indulge in acts of petty inteferrence, I would rather do without.

Could you give a specific example of the kind of petty interference you are talking about?

I know it when I see it Mona, when people are visibly getting a kick out of being confrontational. People who call out others about their behaviour, until it becomes monotonous. I wouldn't want to try and enlighten the public about autism with that kind of ally.



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18 Aug 2019, 9:45 am

bhawk wrote:
I personally do not understand tribal politics, both here in the UK and elsewhere.
For me i make an assessment of the policies the parties are putting forward.
Here in the uk there is a website which will give you the main parties policies, without identifying whose policy it is.
You then select which of the policies you support, at the end of the listed policies it will then give you an evaluation of which parties policies you support by majority.
I try to stick to this idea, even with the recent demonisation and persecution from the right wing tory party towards anyone disabled.


I had a go at this and my result was a balanced mix of four parties. So yeah, I wish we could vote for policies, because I would like to select my own from each party please. I guess it's much more about them than it is about us. :roll: