Accepting anxiety as a feature of being a woman with ASD

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Amity
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19 Sep 2019, 7:02 am

Accepting anxiety... I'm posting it here due to the way the world is for women on the spectrum.
I'm likely to always have anxiety. Whatever notions I had about being free of it are dissolving into reality.

There are threats everywhere, based on my experiences these are unfortunately realistic threats, even if the world categories them as irrational fears. I know from experience that the world is wrong on this one, for me anyways.

It's just that sometimes I really need a break from it and a break from doing all the constantly sensible things that I have to do to stay afloat and not drown in the symptoms. Or worse still have prolonged untreated anxiety lead to a deep depression.
As I said I'm doing all the things that one should do (self care, medication, therapy), it's hard to stay motivated when looking forward to a lifetime of doing this.
So how to accept an innate anxiousness, exasperated by environmental factors and triggered by how the world is, not how it should be?
As always, all responses welcome, just struggling with this a bit.



Fireblossom
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19 Sep 2019, 7:17 am

No idea really, I just always try to push through since so far it's the only thing that I can do.



B19
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19 Sep 2019, 2:59 pm

This is an interesting topic Amity.

My view is that anxiety in AS people (in a nutshell) stems from the (unacknowledged) impacts of trauma of living in an NT dominated culture. I think all AS people are/have been traumatised by this - at school, at work, in "social life", in daily life. There is so much of it and it is so constant that there can be few if any AS people who are not experiencing discrimination of some kind on a continual basis from childhood.

As many of us are bullied at school, at work, and some of us bullied at home, we learn at an early age that the world is and feels unsafe. We learn that it can be dangerous to relax and let down our self-protective barriers. We learn to fear rejection, and/or abuse, and/or exclusion. I've always seen great strength and empathy in you, though that doesn't always protect us from the slings and arrows of invalidation and discriminatory treatment.

You give a lot of support to others and maybe its time for you to receive some back. You certainly deserve it.

And that's trauma.

What are the impacts of lifelong trauma? Anxiety of course, but a lifetime of traumatising invalidation can lead to much darker places and options. This is why support centres like WP are so very important, and supportive members like yourself which are its greatest strengths.

Psychologists know the impact of trauma generally but tend to ignore continual AS experience of it. That is a loud silence on their part, and yet even if they acknowledged and addressed the problem, the solution is not in their hands, because only a culture shift of understanding, acceptance and appreciation of AS value will lessen the burden of the lifelong trauma that AS people endure.

As individuals, some of us are more resilient than others, fight back harder, but none of us are immune.



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19 Sep 2019, 3:34 pm

I experience a lot of anxiety and sometimes it is such a background to my life I don't realize that it is going on. I have to rest a lot. I live in the woods so I don't have to interact with people much. Sometimes it is a matter of just pushing through, like fire blossom said.

I can sometimes practice being with the anxiety, dancing with it so to speak, and discovering it has no intrinsic power. Not that it doesn't rob me of a lot of pleasure, not that living with it doesn't exhaust me, but just let it be. With practice, I have been able to reduce it some.


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B19
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19 Sep 2019, 3:36 pm

You too are a star supporter of others on Wrong Planet. I hope you will receive this back in spades.



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19 Sep 2019, 7:29 pm

Thank you, B19. It is good to see you posting again.


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Amity
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19 Sep 2019, 7:37 pm

B19 wrote:
This is an interesting topic Amity.

My view is that anxiety in AS people (in a nutshell) stems from the (unacknowledged) impacts of trauma of living in an NT dominated culture. I think all AS people are/have been traumatised by this - at school, at work, in "social life", in daily life. There is so much of it and it is so constant that there can be few if any AS people who are not experiencing discrimination of some kind on a continual basis from childhood.

As many of us are bullied at school, at work, and some of us bullied at home, we learn at an early age that the world is and feels unsafe. We learn that it can be dangerous to relax and let down our self-protective barriers. We learn to fear rejection, and/or abuse, and/or exclusion. I've always seen great strength and empathy in you, though that doesn't always protect us from the slings and arrows of invalidation and discriminatory treatment.

You give a lot of support to others and maybe its time for you to receive some back. You certainly deserve it.

And that's trauma.

What are the impacts of lifelong trauma? Anxiety of course, but a lifetime of traumatising invalidation can lead to much darker places and options. This is why support centres like WP are so very important, and supportive members like yourself which are its greatest strengths.

Psychologists know the impact of trauma generally but tend to ignore continual AS experience of it. That is a loud silence on their part, and yet even if they acknowledged and addressed the problem, the solution is not in their hands, because only a culture shift of understanding, acceptance and appreciation of AS value will lessen the burden of the lifelong trauma that AS people endure.

As individuals, some of us are more resilient than others, fight back harder, but none of us are immune.

B19, thank you.
I think the open sharing of knowledge and your keen perception of the world are some of your many features that missed while you were gone :heart: You're worth your weight in gold as they say!

Certain patterns in social behaviour are something I notice, I guess it comes from years of hypervigilance, it sets off a gut feeling. Like the example of bullying, or the low level stuff that I associate with narcissism, for sure I can see how this would trigger people on the spectrum.

I spoke about the high incidence of trauma in autistic folks with the therapist I'm seeing for CPTSD and he was surprised by this. To give credit where it's due he has swotted up about ASD in adult women since we started and has come a long way lol. We did have a few sessions in the beginning where we crossed swords due to the very different interpretations of experiences.
I do have steel down my spine when needed, though I find being in situations that require it regularly takes energy out of me.
Yes indeed WP is an autistic oasis and from my experience has such potential to affect positive change in peoples lives, if they are receptive to some hard graft on their end.

I guess I value this place as I do, due to the incredible support I recieved here when I truly had no one to turn to for help. Complete strangers on the internet reached out to me, sharing their precious social energy to help me, and suddenly I wasnt alone, that has worth beyond measure.

Quote:
I can sometimes practice being with the anxiety, dancing with it so to speak, and discovering it has no intrinsic power. Not that it doesn't rob me of a lot of pleasure, not that living with it doesn't exhaust me, but just let it be. With practice, I have been able to reduce it some.

I like this idea blazing star, thank you for that idea of coexistence, its like reclaiming the autonomy that anxiety takes away. Like mindfulness.
On a side note the Society of friends and the Choctaw nation gave generously to the starving during the Irish famine. That's always touched my heart, the way that those who were terribly discriminated against could have such compassion for others, to retain their humanity in spite of terrible hardship, we have erected plaques to commemorate this kindness in many relevant locations here.
Quote:
No idea really, I just always try to push through since so far it's the only thing that I can do.

I done this to extremes in the past and kept doing it till I couldn't disassociate anymore.
As a part of the therapy I'm attending, EMDR has been very effective. I use the side to side eye movements when I need to regain control. It's not a cure, but it gives relief enough to allow rational thought to return.


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19 Sep 2019, 8:02 pm

Had already accepted anxiety as a part of human condition as much as autism does.

... Speaking as an female aspie who doesn't deal with anxiety (subtle or not) for the majority of her current life. :lol:


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SharonB
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19 Sep 2019, 8:54 pm

This rings true for me. What we resist persists. Express and release.

I am a hypersensitive person. With all five to six (or more) senses. I spent decades suppressing and hiding (from myself) my feelings and concerns and it led to self-harm and depression. I think in acknowledging my concerns, validating my feelings for myself, I can experience relief and calm.

Interestingly my NT dad also has significant anxiety and is hypersensitive. I sent him an article about level of anxiety correlating directly to level of intelligence. Sometimes a person is aware of, knows or has experienced a lot - and is justifiably anxious. So back to when to act, when let go --- I joke: when to medicate, when to meditate.

In the past: I remember very clearly when I got scared as a child, I got the message that I was unreasonable, foolish, over dramatic, etc. What developed was Anxiety -> fear -> embarrassment -> suppression -> depression

In the present: I get to believe in myself, consider what's in my control and what isn't. What I want to develop is Anxiety -> acknowledgement -> act or let go -> calm

The act or let go is tricky because it's the wisdom part, and I allow that I won't KNOW and give it a go in any case.

Looking at your profile pic, looking at mine... I think we're ready to accept. :heart:



Amity
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20 Sep 2019, 9:00 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Had already accepted anxiety as a part of human condition as much as autism does.

... Speaking as an female aspie who doesn't deal with anxiety (subtle or not) for the majority of her current life. :lol:

Edna, I am glad for you that anxiety is not a feature of your life, I am curious though, how does not having anxiety impact on your sense of danger? Though if you've never had it, then you know no other way of being... :)
How do you know when you are in danger?
I can accept that anxiety is part of the human condition, it's more so the thoughts of it always being there that gets to me.



Amity
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20 Sep 2019, 9:26 am

SharonB wrote:
This rings true for me. What we resist persists. Express and release.

I am a hypersensitive person. With all five to six (or more) senses. I spent decades suppressing and hiding (from myself) my feelings and concerns and it led to self-harm and depression. I think in acknowledging my concerns, validating my feelings for myself, I can experience relief and calm.

Interestingly my NT dad also has significant anxiety and is hypersensitive. I sent him an article about level of anxiety correlating directly to level of intelligence. Sometimes a person is aware of, knows or has experienced a lot - and is justifiably anxious. So back to when to act, when let go --- I joke: when to medicate, when to meditate.

In the past: I remember very clearly when I got scared as a child, I got the message that I was unreasonable, foolish, over dramatic, etc. What developed was Anxiety -> fear -> embarrassment -> suppression -> depression

In the present: I get to believe in myself, consider what's in my control and what isn't. What I want to develop is Anxiety -> acknowledgement -> act or let go -> calm

The act or let go is tricky because it's the wisdom part, and I allow that I won't KNOW and give it a go in any case.

Looking at your profile pic, looking at mine... I think we're ready to accept. :heart:

Sharon, Im not sure how I would order my experience of the same emotions/reactions

Maybe like so
Embarrassment, then fear, next is anxiety then suppression followed by depression.

So for me, I guess the initial triggers lead to associative or learned/conditioned reactions.

I am willing to accept that it's a feature of who I am, I cant change reality, fighting it is harmful... but the accepting it process will likely take a while longer than I'd like it to.
Be well :)



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20 Sep 2019, 1:25 pm

SharonB wrote:
This rings true for me. What we resist persists. Express and release.

I am a hypersensitive person. With all five to six (or more) senses. I spent decades suppressing and hiding (from myself) my feelings and concerns and it led to self-harm and depression. I think in acknowledging my concerns, validating my feelings for myself, I can experience relief and calm.

Interestingly my NT dad also has significant anxiety and is hypersensitive. I sent him an article about level of anxiety correlating directly to level of intelligence. Sometimes a person is aware of, knows or has experienced a lot - and is justifiably anxious. So back to when to act, when let go --- I joke: when to medicate, when to meditate.

In the past: I remember very clearly when I got scared as a child, I got the message that I was unreasonable, foolish, over dramatic, etc. What developed was Anxiety -> fear -> embarrassment -> suppression -> depression

In the present: I get to believe in myself, consider what's in my control and what isn't. What I want to develop is Anxiety -> acknowledgement -> act or let go -> calm

The act or let go is tricky because it's the wisdom part, and I allow that I won't KNOW and give it a go in any case.

Looking at your profile pic, looking at mine... I think we're ready to accept. :heart:

I relate to what you write a lot. I'm also extremely sensitive and I learned to hide it from very early age because of reactions of others. In my case, it led to deeply messed up mental health and psychiatric misdiagnosis.
Just as in your case, acknowledgment and validation do help me in rebuilding my mental health. My fear over sensory and social overstimulation is real as my suffering due to overstimulation is very real.

Now I've learned not to be anxious over my own anxiety. If I start to feel pronounced social phobia, it's a sign I need rest - urgently. It's kind of another signal from my body.

Amity wrote:
I spoke about the high incidence of trauma in autistic folks with the therapist I'm seeing for CPTSD and he was surprised by this. To give credit where it's due he has swotted up about ASD in adult women since we started and has come a long way lol. We did have a few sessions in the beginning where we crossed swords due to the very different interpretations of experiences.

I wonder if a therapist who requires sword crossing has really any chance to be helpful.


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20 Sep 2019, 3:27 pm

Magz, I cant quote atm.

They were my exact thoughts at the time.
I wasnt masking, I was being 100% me and he had no experience with women in the spectrum.

So for example he misinterpreted stating facts (I blamed my social blindness for a few incidents) as a sign of disliking myself, directness as surely meaning something else and my being understated or simply not dramatic as an indicator that it wasnt as serious as it was.
Basically typical language meets Aspergerese.

We disagreed on empathy too, he took my ability to feel this quite deeply as a sign that I was surely misdiagnosed. Lol. That one was fun.

At the time I had urgent issues I needed support with, so I figured if he showed promise regarding his lack of knowledge, then when the crisis had passed I would consider if I wanted to continue based on how he improved.

He improved, swotted up about female autism and was receptive to being wrong on certain things.
I can work with someone like that. Getting a PTSD and ASD therapist in one is rare and likely a good distance away and outside my price range, that's if they even exist...
It's the trauma that I had buried deeply, that came to the surface and forced me to seek help, a regular therapist wouldn't have worked, I needed someone experienced that knew what they were doing on the trauma front.



shortfatbalduglyman
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20 Sep 2019, 3:32 pm

the statement is correct

however, some neurotypical men also have anxiety disorders



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20 Sep 2019, 3:36 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
the statement is correct

however, some neurotypical men also have anxiety disorders

Not following what you mean... which statement?



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20 Sep 2019, 3:45 pm

Amity wrote:
Getting a PTSD and ASD therapist in one is rare and likely a good distance away and outside my price range, that's if they even exist ... a regular therapist wouldn't have worked, I needed someone experienced that knew what they were doing on the trauma front.


Amity,

I just wanted to say how much I appreciate and relate to your posts on this thread. You're so clear and articulate at expressing yourself and your journey. I have had a CPTSD counsellor for ten years but he's old-school and although I really like him, he doesn't understand ASD or accommodate my Autism in his therapy. Likewise, I started seeing an ASD psychotherapist this year and although she claims to understand trauma (and Autism -- which is questionable because she's Neurotypical), I could only dream of finding someone who is an expert in both.

Hugs as you continue to heal, learn, and feel heard.


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