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Autistic people hating successful Autistic people?

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Fnord
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20 Sep 2019, 11:05 am

Fireblossom wrote:
... I'm not even talking about putting down some very famous autistic person that could even make NTs jealous, but autistic people who have been able to do everyday things that some other autistic people can't.  These people often claim that the successful one is lying.  Another thing that I see here is belittling the successful person's skills by saying that they must be really lucky, like luck was the only reason they achieved something and skills had nothing to do with it.
On numerous occasions, I've been a target of comments like those you describe.


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firemonkey
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20 Sep 2019, 11:10 am

^ I do think it is partly about luck in having more genetically positive factors. However a person can have such factors and waste them with a poor attitude .



kraftiekortie
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20 Sep 2019, 11:12 am

Genetics really is not as important as people make it out to be.



Mona Pereth
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20 Sep 2019, 12:23 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
I don't recall ever seeing such an attitude here on Wrong Planet, for example. Elsewhere, I've seen resentment against successful autistic people mainly not by autistic people themselves, but by parents of severely disabled autistic people, arguing that the broadness of the autistic spectrum, as currently defined, trivializes their children's problems.


I have. I'm not even talking about putting down some very famous autistic person that could even make NTs jealous, but autistic people who have been able to do everyday things that some other autistic people can't. These people often claim that the succesful one is lying. Another thing that I see here is belittleling the succesful person's skills by saying that they must be really lucky, like luck was the only reason they achieved something and skills had nothing to do with it.

Skills themselves are partly (though not entirely, of course) due to luck -- and that includes "everyday" skills. For example, one person I know is an excellent programmer but still can't tie his shoes in such a way that they stay tied for very long.

Many autistic people have lopsided ability profiles like this, and there are, alas, many who simply don't have sufficient talents to compensate for their disabilities. (There probably are many, also, who have talents that were never developed due to bad education and/or parenting.) This is to a large degree a matter of luck, including both genetics and upbringing.

Of course, success usually requires hard work as well, but it should not be assumed that the latter is the only factor, or that everyone could succeed at something if only they would work hard.


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Mona Pereth
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20 Sep 2019, 12:36 pm

Fnord wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
... I'm not even talking about putting down some very famous autistic person that could even make NTs jealous, but autistic people who have been able to do everyday things that some other autistic people can't.  These people often claim that the successful one is lying.  Another thing that I see here is belittling the successful person's skills by saying that they must be really lucky, like luck was the only reason they achieved something and skills had nothing to do with it.
On numerous occasions, I've been a target of comments like those you describe.

Every time I have ever seen anything like this directed at you, it has always been in response to statements of yours that appeared to be claiming or implying, often in a snarky manner, that everyone else could be as successful as you if only they would try harder.

I've never seen any evidence whatsoever that anyone around here resents your successes per se, but only your frequently-expressed attitudes towards less-successful people.


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Mona Pereth
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20 Sep 2019, 12:43 pm

kjeezy0127 wrote:
I don't hate autistic successful people at all. I'm actually proud that they were able to overcome their autism to be successful.

I'm actually proud of autistic people who are able to succeed primarily by working with rather than against their autistic traits.


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Mona Pereth
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20 Sep 2019, 1:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
It happened to me in the Navy, which was before I even suspected that I might have an ASD.

Most people take 12 years or more to advance through 6 pay grades. I did it in 6 years. Every time I took the advancement exam, I scored higher than anyone else at whatever command I was stationed (my "special interest" at the time coincided with my rate). Every time the results came out, someone would run to the Captain and accuse me of cheating. This was usually a person that had been busted in rank at least once, someone with whom I had butted heads at least once, or someone who was simply a slacker and a dirtbag who could not accept the idea that anyone getting promoted wasn't somehow cheating the system or cheating on the test itself.

("He's gotta be cheating, Cap'n! Nobody scores that high!")

After the first time this happened, I made it a point to sit at the same table that the proctors used to take breaks -- there was always at least one of them at the table with me. Each one testified that there was no possible way that I could have cheated, and my service record showed that I was the "go-to guy" for troubleshooting, even outside my rate.

Based on your experience above, I can see why you might be inclined to suspect that people resent your success per se.

I'm sorry to hear that you were falsely accused of cheating. I'm glad that your accusers didn't succeed in actually getting you into serious trouble. Sitting near the proctors was a smart move.

It should be pointed out that the people you mentioned above were direct competitors of yours, who might have feared that they would be held to higher standards based on your example.

Nevertheless:

Fnord wrote:
Call it jealousy, lobster-pot syndrome, or sour grapes -- there are just some people who simply cannot accept the truth that their lack of success is a direct result of their own lack of effort.

I would suggest that you refrain from jumping to conclusions as to whether someone's lack of success is due merely to "their own lack of effort" or to something else.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 20 Sep 2019, 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fnord
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20 Sep 2019, 1:19 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
... I'm not even talking about putting down some very famous autistic person that could even make NTs jealous, but autistic people who have been able to do everyday things that some other autistic people can't.  These people often claim that the successful one is lying.  Another thing that I see here is belittling the successful person's skills by saying that they must be really lucky, like luck was the only reason they achieved something and skills had nothing to do with it.
On numerous occasions, I've been a target of comments like those you describe.
Every time I have ever seen anything like this directed at you, it has always been in response to statements of yours that appeared to be claiming or implying, often in a snarky manner, that everyone else could be as successful as you if only they would try harder. I've never seen any evidence whatsoever that anyone around here resents your successes per se, but only your frequently-expressed attitudes towards less-successful people.
Toward a couple of specific individuals, yes, I have been a jackass. The trouble is once you get a reputation like that with a few people, practically anything you say -- good, bad, or indifferent -- from then on to anyone is somehow perceived as snarky and condescending. That's a helluva reputation to live down, but I'm stuck with it for now.

:(


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20 Sep 2019, 1:28 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
SuSaNnA wrote:
I've also seen (on separate occasions) that autistic people trying to tear down other autistic people for gaining some success.

Where have you seen this?

I don't recall ever seeing such an attitude here on Wrong Planet, for example. Elsewhere, I've seen resentment against successful autistic people mainly not by autistic people themselves, but by parents of severely disabled autistic people, arguing that the broadness of the autistic spectrum, as currently defined, trivializes their children's problems.


I have. I'm not even talking about putting down some very famous autistic person that could even make NTs jealous, but autistic people who have been able to do everyday things that some other autistic people can't. These people often claim that the succesful one is lying. Another thing that I see here is belittleling the succesful person's skills by saying that they must be really lucky, like luck was the only reason they achieved something and skills had nothing to do with it.



I've seen it from NTs. Like your write too well to be autistic, you are too articulate, you aren't a Chris Chan


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20 Sep 2019, 1:34 pm

Fnord wrote:
Toward a couple of specific individuals, yes, I have been a jackass. The trouble is once you get a reputation like that with a few people, practically anything you say -- good, bad, or indifferent -- from then on to anyone is somehow perceived as snarky and condescending. That's a helluva reputation to live down, but I'm stuck with it for now.

:(

I think you are a grumpy old man and I like you.

It's a feedback so you can know your reputation more precisely ;)


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Fnord
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20 Sep 2019, 1:38 pm

magz wrote:
I think you are a grumpy old man and I like you.

Gee...
Image
… thanks.


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Mona Pereth
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20 Sep 2019, 1:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
Toward a couple of specific individuals, yes, I have been a jackass. The trouble is once you get a reputation like that with a few people, practically anything you say -- good, bad, or indifferent -- from then on to anyone is somehow perceived as snarky and condescending. That's a helluva reputation to live down, but I'm stuck with it for now.

:(

No, you're not stuck with it. Even now, not absolutely everything you say is snarky and condescending. If you were to stop being snarky and condescending, your reputation would eventually catch up to the new reality. It would probably take a while, but many people would notice and, at some point, compliment you on the change.


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20 Sep 2019, 1:47 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
No. Even now, not absolutely everything you say is snarky and condescending. If you were to stop being snarky and condescending, your reputation would...
… be as bland and uninteresting as cold rice porridge.

No thank you.


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Mona Pereth
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20 Sep 2019, 1:51 pm

Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
No. Even now, not absolutely everything you say is snarky and condescending. If you were to stop being snarky and condescending, your reputation would...
… be as bland and uninteresting as cold rice porridge.

No thank you.

There are other possible alternatives besides being "snarky and condescending" and being "as bland and uninteresting as cold rice porridge."


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Fnord
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20 Sep 2019, 2:11 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
No. Even now, not absolutely everything you say is snarky and condescending. If you were to stop being snarky and condescending, your reputation would...
… be as bland and uninteresting as cold rice porridge. No thank you.
There are other possible alternatives besides being "snarky and condescending" and being "as bland and uninteresting as cold rice porridge."
Let me give you a few more examples to add to those two:

"Yeah, but everybody hates me and wants me gone, so why bother changing? Not that anyone would notice..."

"I think change is good. Maybe if we all changed, everything would be better. My cat is funny."

"Woo-HOO! Weasels! Weasels! Weasels! Let's have more weasels!"

"Has anyone seen my new tattoos? Here, let me show you a few dozen pictures."

"You gotta be more woke to the social stratification around you. You gotta be schooled to my point of view."

"Ever since Obama was elected, there has been a leftist conspiracy to make everyone nice. Israel is behind it."

"He77o, I haVe for to sai1ing many majicable LOV3 potions fr0m Far East landing5."

Which of these would you like me to emulate more often?


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20 Sep 2019, 2:12 pm

You can always heat up the rice porridge, and put sugar and fruit in it :)