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MaxE
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03 Nov 2019, 2:11 pm

Arthropod wrote:
Nazism and communism are in fact very similar aspects of the same totalitarian system. Biggest difference between them is communists allied with America and Britan during war and defeated nazis. So as history is writen by the victors, communism is depicted as better than nazism. But in fact both systems are purely evil, built only on lies, maintained on fear, death and slave labor.

In fact it frustrates me that that nazism and communism are still depicted as some opposites (nazism is depicted as right-winged, and communism is depicted as left-winged). Of course both are strongly left-winged, which is even visible in nazism full name (Nationalsozialismus, which in German means national socialism).

Well given Polish history of the 20th Century, you have experienced both so I suppose you should know.


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03 Nov 2019, 2:33 pm

I do find it baffling that some people actually praise communism, and the fact that Americans sided with them during World War 2 to defeat their enemies shows what hypocrites they really are.

"Nazis are evil!! ! Japenese are evil!! ! Commies are our friends.... until we decided they were never our friends and are evil too!! !" :roll:



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03 Nov 2019, 2:47 pm

That war was never fought for goodness of anybody. That was only propaganda, which ordinary soldiers heard. Leaders of countries (Rosevelt, Churchil, Hitler and Stalin) fought for power over the rest of the world. Now history depict war as a fight against evil, but it is hypocrisy. USA and Great Britan absolutely didnt cared about atrocities, which happened in lands occupied by Germany and Russia. In fact British and American army had ways to geatly reduce it (bomb railways leading to German death camps, as Polish intelligence suggested), but they didnt. This operation was not profitable for them (Hitler is so dumb to waste his resources into killing some civilians instead of British and American soldiers? Good! So set him continue with it!).



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03 Nov 2019, 3:02 pm

Arthropod wrote:
That war was never fought for goodness of anybody. That was only propaganda, which ordinary soldiers heard. Leaders of countries (Rosevelt, Churchil, Hitler and Stalin) fought for power over the rest of the world. Now history depict war as a fight against evil, but it is hypocrisy. USA and Great Britan absolutely didnt cared about atrocities, which happened in lands occupied by Germany and Russia. In fact British and American army had ways to geatly reduce it (bomb railways leading to German death camps, as Polish intelligence suggested), but they didnt. This operation was not profitable for them (Hitler is so dumb to waste his resources into killing some civilians instead of British and American soldiers? Good! So set him continue with it!).



Believe me I DO understand. The Americans and the British both did very atrocious things during World War 1 and 2 and the only reason they were never punished by the Geneva Convention like the Germans and Japanese were was because they actually WON those wars.

And to this day Americans continue to commit war crimes by bullying third world countries like Veitnam and Iraq and the United Nations does not do a damn thing about it. We've actually destroyed the democracies in other countries and put dictators in control to better serve us!

It's all bullshit, and yes Holl'o'wood always portrays the wars that Americans fight in as a cliche phony bologna battle of good vs evil. I get so damn sick of it! :roll:



rdococ
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03 Nov 2019, 3:21 pm

Arthropod wrote:
Nazism and communism are in fact very similar aspects of the same totalitarian system. Biggest difference between them is communists allied with America and Britan during war and defeated nazis. So as history is writen by the victors, communism is depicted as better than nazism. But in fact both systems are purely evil, built only on lies, maintained on fear, death and slave labor.

In fact it frustrates me that that nazism and communism are still depicted as some opposites (nazism is depicted as right-winged, and communism is depicted as left-winged). Of course both are strongly left-winged, which is even visible in nazism full name (Nationalsozialismus, which in German means national socialism).


Nazism's social and economic policies were opportunistic. They worked with big businesses, had welfare but only for the "master race", and supported abortions but only for eugenics purposes. They called themselves socialist for propaganda purposes to attract voters in Germany, because socialism was popular at the time, and people like you are still falling for that to this very day.

Communism is completely different. Communism as an idea began way before nazism, in the 1800s, with Marx and other philosophers writing books about the nature of capital. There is no way that translates to lies, fear, death and slave labor, and communism is directly opposed to the slavery inherent in capitalism.

It frustrates me that people are so ignorant of history that they're willing to say that nazism and communism are similar things, because that's literally the furthest you could possibly be from the truth. Nazism and communism are opposed, and communism is definitely much, much better. Please stop looking for excuses to shift the blame to the left, it's quite annoying.

Oh, and are you seriously calling communism a "victor"? Most people nowadays hate communism because of Cold War propaganda. In fact, most people agree with you that nazism and communism are similar things.



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03 Nov 2019, 3:25 pm

rdococ wrote:
Arthropod wrote:
Nazism and communism are in fact very similar aspects of the same totalitarian system. Biggest difference between them is communists allied with America and Britan during war and defeated nazis. So as history is writen by the victors, communism is depicted as better than nazism. But in fact both systems are purely evil, built only on lies, maintained on fear, death and slave labor.

In fact it frustrates me that that nazism and communism are still depicted as some opposites (nazism is depicted as right-winged, and communism is depicted as left-winged). Of course both are strongly left-winged, which is even visible in nazism full name (Nationalsozialismus, which in German means national socialism).


Nazism's social and economic policies were opportunistic. They worked with big businesses, had welfare but only for the "master race", and supported abortions but only for eugenics purposes. They called themselves socialist for propaganda purposes to attract voters in Germany, because socialism was popular at the time, and people like you are still falling for that to this very day.

Communism is completely different. Communism as an idea began way before nazism, in the 1800s, with Marx and other philosophers writing books about the nature of capital. There is no way that translates to lies, fear, death and slave labor, and communism is directly opposed to the slavery inherent in capitalism.

It frustrates me that people are so ignorant of history that they're willing to say that nazism and communism are similar things, because that's literally the furthest you could possibly be from the truth. Nazism and communism are opposed, and communism is definitely much, much better. Please stop looking for excuses to shift the blame to the left, it's quite annoying.

Oh, and are you seriously calling communism a "victor"? Most people nowadays hate communism because of Cold War propaganda. In fact, most people agree with you that nazism and communism are similar things.


Do you live in a communist country?



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03 Nov 2019, 3:37 pm

I find nazism in all forms to by morally/ethically repugnant. I can't say the same thing about communism.

rdococ wrote:
People that view capitalism as a good thing, as merely the concept of free and voluntary association, are heavily misguided. It's not, it's a ploy to gain and keep control over the people, and most people have completely fallen for it.

Yeah, that's very unfortunate.



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03 Nov 2019, 3:39 pm

Nazisim and Communism are both forms of Feudalism — serfs at the bottom, nobility in the middle, and rulers at the top.


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03 Nov 2019, 3:44 pm

Can anybody show me an example of a Communistic society that actually worked?

And DO NOT say China! That country to me is more like a State-Controlled Capitalistic Dictatorship than a true Communistic Society. :roll:



Arthropod
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03 Nov 2019, 4:03 pm

rdococ wrote:
Communism is completely different. (...) There is no way that translates to lies, fear, death and slave labor, and communism is directly opposed to the slavery inherent in capitalism.

These are exacly the lies. Communism is depicted as directly opposed to many bad things, but when it comes into relity, it turns out to be just a normal tyrany. Single sovereign rules people as he wants, killing or closing all of them who do not believe in him in death camps (in another "communist paradise", North Corea, they are still working!), and keeping rest of society in extreme poverty. In communist system even a toilet paper or hot water is a luxury good, rarely availible. My parents said that under communist rule, when they were seeing a queue to some shop, they immediately stood there without even asking what they are selling ,and hoped whatever shop was selling, they will manage to buy it before it will run out, as next chance can be very far away. And in queues then people were standing for hours, often in vain. Most shops in communist Poland looked like this Image
Only product which was availible and is visible on this picture is a vinegar. And if you publicly said you didnt like how things in "perfect system" works, you will be arrested and mysteriously dissapear. Only way to make career in communism is to cooperate with ruling party, often spying other citzens for them. There were even special shops only for such collaborators, where luksury goods like shoes or soap were availible all the time, but ordinary citzens were not allowed to buy there. Communism is as evil system as it is possible.

rdococ wrote:
Oh, and are you seriously calling communism a "victor"? Most people nowadays hate communism because of Cold War propaganda. In fact, most people agree with you that nazism and communism are similar things.

Rightfull communism place in history should be in a single coffin with nazism. Until some people see it as not one of the worst possible system, it remain more victorious than it should.



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03 Nov 2019, 4:42 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Can anybody show me an example of a Communistic society that actually worked?

One example out of many.


https://youtu.be/P32nCI_QDXE



Last edited by RushKing on 03 Nov 2019, 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TW1ZTY
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03 Nov 2019, 4:51 pm

RushKing wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Can anybody show me an example of a Communistic society that actually worked?

One example out of many.


https://youtu.be/P32nCI_QDXE


That's actually an interesting watch, but I don't think nation-wide communism works as well as it does when confided to small communities.

And sometimes in those cases you end up with murderous cults like Jonestown and Helter Skelter.



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03 Nov 2019, 5:01 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
That's actually an interesting watch, but I don't think nation-wide communism works as well as it does when confided to small communities.

I agree with you. I believe nation-scale communism would have to be organized in smaller autonomous units. The idea of the nation state or "proletarian" state would have to be done away with.



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03 Nov 2019, 5:11 pm

chris1989 wrote:
I still think Nazism was worst due to racism, hatred, inequality, anti capitalist, anti communist and committed terrible things because of it and Communism wasn't quite the same as Nazism, Okay, there were cases of inequality (especially to religious groups under communist regimes and were anti capitalist and one particularly hideous communist regime was Pol Pot's were millions were just simply murdered but other regimes like that never committed anything as atrocious as Hitler and the Nazis did.


Using:
"What political philosophy killed the most people", as the benchmark, it would have to be commie-ism, wouldn't it?


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03 Nov 2019, 5:14 pm

Fnord wrote:
Nazisim and Communism are both forms of Feudalism — serfs at the bottom, nobility in the middle, and rulers at the top.


Not true.
In Communism:
"All animals are created equally,
But some are more equal than others." :mrgreen:


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03 Nov 2019, 5:25 pm

Fireblossom wrote:

A lot of people died in SU after the war, too. The ideology of communism is that everyone does their best and gets their fair share, while the idea of nazism is that certain people are above others. With that in mind, I'd say nazism is worse.


More than a bit of "turning a blind eye" when saying how "warm and fuzzy" communism is.
A stated philosophy and the actions of those purporting those political sympathies are two separate considerations.
I think you need to focus on the deeds rather than the words, here.

Quote:
In 2016, the Dissident blog of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation made an effort to compile updated ranges of estimates and concluded that the overall range "spans from 42,870,000 to 161,990,000" killed, with 100 million the most commonly cited figure.[x] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_kill ... #Estimates


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