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Pepe
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03 Nov 2019, 5:14 pm

Fnord wrote:
Nazisim and Communism are both forms of Feudalism — serfs at the bottom, nobility in the middle, and rulers at the top.


Not true.
In Communism:
"All animals are created equally,
But some are more equal than others." :mrgreen:


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Pepe
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03 Nov 2019, 5:25 pm

Fireblossom wrote:

A lot of people died in SU after the war, too. The ideology of communism is that everyone does their best and gets their fair share, while the idea of nazism is that certain people are above others. With that in mind, I'd say nazism is worse.


More than a bit of "turning a blind eye" when saying how "warm and fuzzy" communism is.
A stated philosophy and the actions of those purporting those political sympathies are two separate considerations.
I think you need to focus on the deeds rather than the words, here.

Quote:
In 2016, the Dissident blog of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation made an effort to compile updated ranges of estimates and concluded that the overall range "spans from 42,870,000 to 161,990,000" killed, with 100 million the most commonly cited figure.[x] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_kill ... #Estimates


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I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
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03 Nov 2019, 5:35 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Nazism is evil in theory. And its evil when put into practice.

Communism is moral and idealistic in theory, but evil when put into practice.


At least the fascists were honest about it. :mrgreen:
Better to meet a wolf than a wolf in sheep's clothing, I'd say.
Personally, I have a bigger problem with connivance if I have to choose between being at the end of two evils.

BTW,
I believe it is more correct to use the term "Fascism" rather than "Nazism", here.


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I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


rdococ
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10 Nov 2019, 4:11 pm

Pepe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Nazism is evil in theory. And its evil when put into practice.

Communism is moral and idealistic in theory, but evil when put into practice.


At least the fascists were honest about it. :mrgreen:
Better to meet a wolf than a wolf in sheep's clothing, I'd say.
Personally, I have a bigger problem with connivance if I have to choose between being at the end of two evils.

BTW,
I believe it is more correct to use the term "Fascism" rather than "Nazism", here.


Yeah, no. Fascists are way less honest than communists. A modern day communist would tell you that yes, a communist revolution would use violence if it had to, and it probably would have to. A modern day fascist would tell you that they just want to "peacefully relocate" all the people who aren't their preferred color of skin to their supposed homes.



kraftiekortie
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10 Nov 2019, 4:13 pm

Apples and Oranges....



Tim_Tex
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11 Nov 2019, 9:06 am

Persecution of certain ethnic groups have occurred in communist countries as well. Religion was often heavily restricted or, in the case of Albania, banned outright.

China’s persecution of the Uyghurs, the Falun Gong and Tibetans is ongoing.

The Soviet Union ordered the people of the Central Asian republics to “Russify” their surnames. Only Tajikistan has made efforts to resume use of traditional surnames.


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kraftiekortie
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11 Nov 2019, 9:14 am

How about the persecution of intellectuals and urban folks under both Pol Pot in Cambodia, and Mao Zedong, in China?

There was genocide in these persecutions. Millions died.

Both were Communists.



CockneyRebel
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11 Nov 2019, 6:17 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
I think in a perfect society we would all get over our selfish differences and work together to help each other and to take care of the planet.

How come nobody wants that?


You and I share the same opinion.


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Hollywood_Guy
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13 Nov 2019, 5:22 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Nazism is evil in theory. And its evil when put into practice.

Communism is moral and idealistic in theory, but evil when put into practice.

Mein Kampf lays out how Hitler wanted to conquer, enslave, and mass murder.

In contrast Marx's Communist Manifesto is summed up in two sentences:"from each according to his ability. To each according his need".

But when communism was put on the map it required totalitarianism indistinguishable from Nazism. Indeed Fascism (which Nazism is the most virulent form) was spawned largely because of the rise of "Bolshevism" in Europe at the end of the First World War. The rich and the church and the priviledge feared the rise of communism, and desperately sought strongmen like Mussolini, Franco, and HItler to defend them against it.

Some fascist regimes are worse than others. And some Communist regimes were worse than others. If you view Nazism as a subset of fascism, and view Stalinism as a subset of Communism then Stalinism and Nazism are about the same and are both extreme.


Totalitarianism or authoritarianism is a requirement for communism too.



kraftiekortie
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13 Nov 2019, 6:23 pm

In full-throttle Communist theory, there is collective leadership, "The Dictatorship of the Proletariat."

But in actuality, when people veer off in to the far left, they tend to support totalitarianism.



RushKing
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13 Nov 2019, 7:12 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
In full-throttle Communist theory, there is collective leadership, "The Dictatorship of the Proletariat."

Depends on the communist theory.



kraftiekortie
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13 Nov 2019, 7:16 pm

I guess I'm talking mostly about classic Marxism.

But there really aren't very many Communist nations who don't follow some sort of Marxist theory.



Pepe
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18 Nov 2019, 5:44 am

rdococ wrote:
Pepe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Nazism is evil in theory. And its evil when put into practice.

Communism is moral and idealistic in theory, but evil when put into practice.


At least the fascists were honest about it. :mrgreen:
Better to meet a wolf than a wolf in sheep's clothing, I'd say.
Personally, I have a bigger problem with connivance if I have to choose between being at the end of two evils.

BTW,
I believe it is more correct to use the term "Fascism" rather than "Nazism", here.


Yeah, no. Fascists are way less honest than communists. A modern day communist would tell you that yes, a communist revolution would use violence if it had to, and it probably would have to. A modern day fascist would tell you that they just want to "peacefully relocate" all the people who aren't their preferred color of skin to their supposed homes.


<chuckle>
Does "Gulag" or “special settlers” mean anything to you? :mrgreen:
Quote:
Prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union, estimates of Gulag victims ranged from 2.3 to 17.6 million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Death_toll

And does the modern term of Chinese "Re-eduction Camps" accurately convey the situation?
Quote:
More than 12 million Muslims have effectively been taken prisoner in their own homeland, an area of north-west China officially referred to as Xinjiang, which means “New Dominion”. For tens of thousands, some estimate as many as one million, the imprisonment is literal. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ged-uighur


_________________
I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen: