Trump says Ukraine, China should investigate Bidens

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President Donald Trump on Thursday openly called for China to launch an investigation into the Bidens, boldly engaging on national television in activity similar to the allegations at the heart of Democrats' rapidly intensifying impeachment probe.

Speaking to reporters as he departed the White House for Florida, the president once again urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to open a corruption investigation into the Bidens, but brought up China unprompted when asked what action he wanted his Ukrainian counterpart to take

“Well, I would think that if they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the Bidens. It's a very simple answer. They should investigate the Bidens,” the president told reporters about Ukraine. “Likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens. Because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine."

Trump noted — also unprompted — that Chinese negotiators would be in town next week as the high-stakes trade talks resume, with potentially billions of dollars in tariffs on the line.

“I have a lot of options on China,” he said of the trade talks, “but if they don't do what we want, we have tremendous power.”

Trump’s public appeals for foreign governments to probe a potential political opponent — Biden is one of the top contenders to take on Trump in next year's election — was reminiscent of the Russia probe that engulfed the first half of Trump’s first term, which examined, in part, his 2016 invitation for Russia to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails.

Vox has an interesting video here. Even though they admit the impeachment process is broken, they mention that in any case we should impeach Trump, even if we don't expect him to be convicted in the Senate. It would be better to do than not to do, because 1) it will focus the public and represent a blemish on Trump's presidency, 2) it would inform the public for 2020, and 3) it would send a message to the world that they should not try to interfere in our elections:



Also, he quotes Hamilton in the Federalist Papers saying that impeachment is a political response to offenses "denominated political". Madison also stated that "the wanton removal of meritorious officers" would be an impeachable offense, for example.

Of the three impeachment inquiries only the Nixon investigation is a clear cut case of leaving a permanent stain on the man and his presidency

Johnsons impeachment is viewed today as partisan, a product of the bitterness of the reconstruction era not a stain on Johnson personally.

During Clinton’s impeachment his popularity went up and remained high until recently. It is the changing standards brought on by #Metoo that has caused a reevaluation that has stained(pun not intended) him. Would that have happened if he were not impeached?

Would Iran-Contra have stained Reagan’s presidency more then it has if he was impeached?

As far as Trump I can not see an impeachment or even removal making a difference in how he and his presidency is and will be perceived. It can at most add details to what he does every day.

I hope they don't continue to dilly-dally. Do what must be done. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. Full impeachment.

We can now make an educated guess that President Trump probably knew the jig was up when he appeared on the White House lawn Thursday morning and announced that he wants Ukraine and China to investigate his leading political rival. This brazen presidential advertisement for more foreign interference took place as the House Intelligence Committee was receiving a batch of text messages recording for posterity that the administration’s Ukraine policy was predicated on trading a presidential visit and military aid for the investigations Trump wanted.

If he didn’t know by then, Trump almost certainly knew it at 9:00 p.m. that night, when he tweeted out his bottom-line position: He has an “absolute right” to push foreign countries to investigate anybody he desires, for any reason.

“Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
As the President of the United States, I have an absolute right, perhaps even a duty, to investigate, or have investigated, CORRUPTION, and that would include asking, or suggesting, other Countries to help us out!”

After a couple weeks of conservatives furiously throwing up every distraction they could imagine — insisting the issue was whistle-blower form had been changed, or that the House hadn’t properly voted to begin impeachment proceedings, or that Adam Schiff had paraphrased Trump’s remarks — we have gotten down to the issue at hand. Either Trump has lost all patience for his allies’ inscrutable evasions, or he has seen where the debate is going and is leading his party to the destination. Trump is claiming the absolute right to demand investigations of any American by any country.

The president exerts unilateral control over the most powerful government on Earth. He is announcing to every foreign state that American relations with his government — and, should he prevail, every future government — can and will be influenced by their willingness to put their judicial or quasi-judicial systems at the disposal of his reelection campaign.

It is almost impossible to imagine such a power could be used properly, even in a theoretical world in which the president was absolutely ethical and completely devoid of any political interest. Presidents don’t get to decide which American citizens are subject to criminal investigations here — why can they make such determinations for other countries’ legal systems?

In any case, even such an obviously problematic hypothetical has no bearing on the situation at hand. The pretext that somehow Trump is advancing the cause of good government by demanding international anti-corruption probes is a morbid joke. First, he is not making this demand of countries with open and fair legal systems that can be counted on to deliver reliable findings. He is not asking Canada or France. He is pressing notoriously corrupt states to deliver a predetermined outcome. For Ukraine or China to quietly investigate his charges and then announce Joe Biden did nothing wrong would be of zero or negative value to him. The favor he is bartering for is the insinuation of guilt.

Trump is currently collecting payments at his properties from interested parties, domestically and internationally. His own children have struck business deals in China — a clear conflict of interest — even as Trump demands probes of Biden’s son for the same alleged sin, with no evidence.

Trump may be bearing a significant political price for his machinations, but they are already bearing fruit. He is being rewarded with headlines like this, from the New York Times — “Ukraine to Review Criminal Case of Firm Linked to Biden’s Son” — which deliciously combine terms like “Biden,” “criminal,” and “linked,” and inject them into the political bloodstream. If he can bear the political cost of the backlash, he has 13 more months to reap the publicity benefits from any of the 193-odd U.N. member states that would like to seize the opportunity to gain Trump’s favor.

This is an ongoing strategy Trump’s partisans are already lining up to endorse. Asked if he approves of Trump’s call for foreign investigations of Biden, Vice-President Mike Pence told reporters that he does. “I think the American people have a right to know if the vice-president of the United States or his family profited from this position as vice-president during the last administration. That’s about looking backwards and understanding what really happened,” he said, “And the president made it very clear that he believes — he believes our other nations around the world should look into it as well.”

Conn Carroll, spokesman for Senator Mike Lee, asks, “So when did asking Ukraine to investigate Burisma for corruption become an impeachable offense exactly?” — as if everybody has always accepted the president’s right to tell foreign countries to investigate officials from the out-party. As the narrow legalistic defenses of Trump’s behavior collapse one by one, and the mountain of proof grows higher that U.S.-Ukraine policy was built around conditioning the relationship on the investigations, Trump loyalists will find no other place to stand.

The clutter has been cleared away and everybody faces the brutally simple choice that Trump presents. Either they hand the president the absolute right, now and forever, to use American foreign policy as a lever to discredit their political rivals, or they vote to impeach.

If Biden did wrong doing as Vice President shouldn’t that be investigated?
This is exactly like how they investigated Hillary right before the election.
You’d rather elect him knowing he brags about doing wrong doing?

I don’t see why the president can’t ask forign countries to investigate Americans possible wrong doings over sees, sine the USA government and do foreign investigations.
Obama wire taped trump pre election, he got Hillary cleared of her stuff, the dnc rigged the election. But no let’s ignore all Democrats wrong doings.

If Biden did wrong doing as Vice President shouldn’t that be investigated?
This is exactly like how they investigated Hillary right before the election.
You’d rather elect him knowing he brags about doing wrong doing?

I don’t see why the president can’t ask forign countries to investigate Americans possible wrong doings over sees, sine the USA government and do foreign investigations.
Obama wire taped trump pre election, he got Hillary cleared of her stuff, the dnc rigged the election. But no let’s ignore all Democrats wrong doings.

:roll: DOH!

There were no derping spies I tell ya. Those folk looking out for magical Russian unicorn lepricorn pixies were just taking a break from digging for Ukranian Lucy's in the sky with diamonds I tell ya. Just cause we here ole' folk got DEM ole' Limey mofos to makeupah story about magical Raspuin lovin' Russians peein' on dat nasty orange man don't mean there was somein' goin on untwold' I tell ya.