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darkwaver
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22 Oct 2019, 7:45 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Thing is, "autism" isn't just one condition. It is many different conditions, with many different causes, primarily though not exclusively genetic. Some kinds of autism may be purely disabilities, but other kinds entail unusual abilities as well as disabilities.

Wouldn't it be interesting if it someday became possible for people to have unusual abilities edited into themselves or their children, while avoiding the disabilities. Maybe enough people would find this desirable that the diversity in human brains would be increased rather than decreased, and cultural acceptance would follow.



carlos55
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23 Oct 2019, 3:50 am

mona wrote:
Thing is, "autism" isn't just one condition. It is many different conditions, with many different causes, primarily though not exclusively genetic. Some kinds of autism may be purely disabilities, but other kinds entail unusual abilities as well as disabilities.


Sadly these abilities usually come at a huge price and are not equal exchanges. Many are dual strengths and weaknesses, for example saying what you think all the time, not having the executive function to know when to polietly not say anything at all.

Many autistic people have lost jobs over this not to mention offended others and put themelves in danger.

Many so called talents are simply party tricks, with limited value, i met someone who knew what day you was born by your birthdate. Was entertaining of course but he couldnt work, hold a conversation or live independently. What reasonable person would see that as a fair exchange?

Many of these strengths are also present in some NTs as well anyway and would continue to exist if autism disapeared.

But at the end of the day im pro personal choice if a hf aspie doesnt want curing in principal i respect that.


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23 Oct 2019, 6:43 pm

carlos55 wrote:
mona wrote:
Thing is, "autism" isn't just one condition. It is many different conditions, with many different causes, primarily though not exclusively genetic. Some kinds of autism may be purely disabilities, but other kinds entail unusual abilities as well as disabilities.


Sadly these abilities usually come at a huge price and are not equal exchanges. Many are dual strengths and weaknesses, for example saying what you think all the time, not having the executive function to know when to polietly not say anything at all.

Many autistic people have lost jobs over this not to mention offended others and put themelves in danger.

Many so called talents are simply party tricks, with limited value, i met someone who knew what day you was born by your birthdate. Was entertaining of course but he couldnt work, hold a conversation or live independently. What reasonable person would see that as a fair exchange?

Many of these strengths are also present in some NTs as well anyway and would continue to exist if autism disapeared.

But at the end of the day im pro personal choice if a hf aspie doesnt want curing in principal i respect that.

Genetics, innate talents and disabilities or not, as many autistics are mismanaged throughout their lives.

And most mismanaged humans lost too many jobs, more than frequent offended others and put themselves in danger. :lol:
The odds an autistic is mismanaged by external circumstances is higher than most allistics of any neurological profile.

For now, most people think a little of a consequence at large by a lifetime of mismanagements, and more of a fault of the autistic individual themselves.
Because that's what most people sees it -- because apparently it also works with neurodiversity outside autism and outside neurodiversity in general -- but not within the autism whether in or not of neurodiversity.

Same old stories, same old cries; everyone is tired of it including autistic individuals themselves.
Only a few can break the cycle themselves with support and all, even fewer with little to no support at all.

Only a very few, several of which are 'high functioning autistics' with enough talents, intelligence, will power, mental stamina and resilience can undo most mismanagements, even mental health issues throughout their lives given if they ended up in the right place.

The same can be said if one is allistic. Even more so an allistic with any more specific label than that.


Therefore most autistics are made 'low functioning', and 'high functioning' with unequal exchanges of strengths and weaknesses with more mental health issues.
Allistics are apparently the exemptions to this. :lol: Probably because most studies emphasises on inherent communication and social issues, and not much on anything else whether the good or the bad.


And so to make everyone else's lives easier, take autism as a whole out of the equation.
Nevermind changing other people's beliefs, nevermind putting new things and ideas on their tables, nevermind changing their ways of upbringing individuals and never mind the effort of any of these. :P

Why not take an easier route if one has an option to? It is silly to take a harder and harsher route at life.
Never mind that if autistics' problems are solved without getting rid of autism itself, that it can help others outside the autism spectrum.


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OrangeCloud
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27 Oct 2019, 6:07 pm

I agree that many of the problems that Autistic people face are caused by society misunderstanding and oppressing them.

I agree with ASANs stance on gene editing, because it infringes on the rights of the individual who is having their genes edited. It is being done without the person's consent and is therefore unethical.

If an adult wants to make biological changes to themselves then they should have every right to. But an unborn child cannot consent to such changes.



carlos55
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28 Oct 2019, 8:47 am

Orahgecloud wrote:
I agree that many of the problems that Autistic people face are caused by society misunderstanding and oppressing them.


Unfortunatly while progress needs to be made to raise awareness of ASD and provide more employment opportunities, the problems of being autistic go way beyond any potential "accomodations and acceptance" and go deep into medical pathology territory.

I believe over focus on so called "oppression" is just an over exaggerated claim to avoid the inconvienient medical truth.


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28 Oct 2019, 2:37 pm

carlos55 wrote:
Given the billions being spent on the technology and the mapping of the human genome, gene editing is inevitable and will be a good thing for humanity.

In fact it would be laughable after all thats been invested to suddenly change their mind so thats not going to happen.

The public want it as well as they see the obvious health advantages. For those alive now and those not born yet.

In fact their statement is non sensical

"The Autistic Self Advocacy Network (ASAN) sees no disease or condition as an appropriate target for human germline genome editing due to the potential societal and ethical implications of widespread use of the technology."

What about the ethics of those with killer conditions? Disabilities that want curing?


The issue isn't the gene editing technology itself as much as it is the kind of people behind using it and their intention.



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28 Oct 2019, 2:42 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Pessimistic Negative Post:
I agree that ASAN’s effort to stop all gene editing is likely a hopeless endeavor. If gene editing technology causes harm because it is messing with mother nature it will collapse regardless of ASAN. If the technology is all it is cracked up to be and cures or successfully treats diseases like cancer it will be viewed as the polio vaccine or penicillin is today a positive. The general public will not likely distinguish between autism and diseases like cancer.

If you oppose elimination of autism the only hope I see is that the view of autism as not a horror becomes so baked in it survives a cure. Never say never but this is going to be very difficult for the ND movement to pull off. I think a lot of the gain in autism acceptance is because there is no cure now or in the foreseeable future. Because autism is seemingly permanent for some autism acceptance, autism as a superpower is a mind trick, a coping mechanism to make the best of a bad situation. With a cure that probably goes away.

ASAN by opposing all gene editing from the get go is going to look really foolish if gene editing is successfully improving peoples lives. Anything they or ND’s say will be discounted. If ASAN turns out to be wrong about gene editing in general it does not mean they are wrong about Autism not being a horrific disease. It won’t matter, life is unfair.


Yes, because we are heading toward a 1984 kind of world that we already have a mass media controlled only by a small number of elites who control and shape public perception to how they want us to view things.