Washington State uses red flag law to seize guns from Nazi

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ASPartOfMe
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19 Oct 2019, 2:45 am

Guns seized from Washington man said to be neo-Nazi leader prepping for 'race war'

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Firearms belonging to the suspected leader of a neo-Nazi group who was thought to be preparing for a "race war" have been seized under a "red flag" law in Washington state, according to court documents.

Authorities removed five rifles, three pistols and other gun components from Kaleb James Cole, 24, under a state law that allows authorities to take guns from people deemed to be a risk to themselves or others for up to a year, authorities said. Cole has not been charged with any crime.

Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes believes the seizure, which court documents indicate happened Sept. 26, may have prevented a massacre.

Prosecutors filed a lawsuit against Cole invoking the state’s red flag law and seeking an "extreme risk protection order." Seventeen states and Washington, D.C. have laws allowing family members or police to remove weapons from people who may be dangerous, according to The Pew Charitable Trusts.

Cole is a self-admitted member of the "Atomwaffen Division"

Police believe Cole participated in recent firearm training and recruitment efforts at “hate camps,” which officials say he helped organize.

"It appears that he has gone from espousing hate to now taking active steps or preparation for an impending 'race war,'" Seattle police said in the petition.

Included with the police petition were a cellphone photo of Cole giving the Nazi salute, and another of him and another person standing in front of the Auschwitz death camp in Poland.

Cole was stopped as he arrived at Chicago’s O’Hare Airport in December 2018 after a 25-day trip to eastern Europe, and officials then noted that he had been identified in an article as being Atomwaffen’s Washington state chapter leader, Customs and Border Protection said in documents attached to the petition.

Cole allegedly admitted his membership, and CBP wrote in its report that he "stated that he shares a fascist ideology, 'strong dominate the weak.'"

But that report also said that Cole told officials he discourages members from doing anything illegal and that his group is not interested in the overthrow of the U.S. government. He said he owned an AK-47 and several handguns for protection. Cole was released after being questioned, the report says.

Cole was deported from Canada earlier this year because officials there felt he was a member of an organization that may engage in terrorism, Seattle police said in its petition for the extreme risk protection order. Cole is said to have been barred from Canada for life.

King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg told NBC affiliate KING of Seattle that the in addition to the weapons seized, which included what he characterized as military-style assault rifles, components and tools that could be used to make untraceable firearms were also found.

Satterberg said that much of the material presented to the judge was information already on the Internet and involved statements by Cole.

"It wasn’t anything super-secret that we had to tell the judge. It was just: 'here’s what this guy’s about, he’s leading other people in practicing and informing a potentially violent cell that would act on their white supremacist views,'" Satterberg told the station.

"So, that was enough to convince this judge that at least temporarily — let’s take a time out. Let’s take these guns out and see what we’ve got here," he said. "It isn't a crime, he’s not being charged, he’s not in jail ... it is a way to slow things down."

This is going to have to be decided by SCOTUS. With their designs on power and water supplies and nuclear plants Atomwaffen Division is probably the domestic terrorist organization that represents a true existential threat. But there probably is a constitutional issue as his guns were seized because of his political beliefs.


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cyberdad
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19 Oct 2019, 3:31 am

Nutters coming out of the wood work...at least they are being neutralised before they become another Dylan Roof



Kraichgauer
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19 Oct 2019, 3:33 am

GOOD! Insane, hateful people have no business with guns! Makes me proud to be a resident of Washington state.
Now let's see how many angry responses I rack up.


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19 Oct 2019, 4:19 am

Red flag laws are unconstitutional as they violate due process.
Patriot act stoped bad people to but also violated the rights of millions of people.
Hopefully court rules properly, who knows Washington Might withdraws the case to avoid it like California, New York and atf have done, anything to avoid court hearing it and precedent being set against them.



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19 Oct 2019, 4:23 am

sly279 wrote:
Red flag laws are unconstitutional as they violate due process.
Patriot act stoped bad people to but also violated the rights of millions of people.
Hopefully court rules properly, who knows Washington Might withdraws the case to avoid it like California, New York and atf have done, anything to avoid court hearing it and precedent being set against them.


What are we suppose to do with violent, racist psychopaths like the guy in question? Just wait till he goes on a killing spree?


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19 Oct 2019, 5:58 am

cyberdad wrote:
Nutters coming out of the wood work...at least they are being neutralised before they become another Dylan Roof


I know a handful equals a swarm.



kraftiekortie
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19 Oct 2019, 6:54 am

Only one nut could wreak the havoc of hundreds....



EzraS
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19 Oct 2019, 8:51 am

It seems pretty obvious that a lot of talk about all the nazis is aimed at republicans, conservatives and mainly Trump.
"Only one nut could wreak the havoc of hundreds...." is an allusion to Trump. Lets be terrified.



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19 Oct 2019, 10:36 am

That time, I wasn’t talking about Trump. I was talking about nuts in general.



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19 Oct 2019, 12:25 pm

I can see these red flag laws being abused as the criteria for dangerous people widens to include more and more situations. As it stands now anyone espousing non-progressive values is labeled a "Nazi" by the left. Speaking for myself, I'd rather live with the inherent perils of living in a free society than the illusion of safely living in a police state which these red flag laws smack of.

To be clear; by freedom I do not mean free stuff (i.e. free money, free healthcare, free housing, free higher education, etc.).


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19 Oct 2019, 12:28 pm

Good I am glad they did.


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19 Oct 2019, 12:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Red flag laws are unconstitutional as they violate due process.
Patriot act stoped bad people to but also violated the rights of millions of people.
Hopefully court rules properly, who knows Washington Might withdraws the case to avoid it like California, New York and atf have done, anything to avoid court hearing it and precedent being set against them.


What are we suppose to do with violent, racist psychopaths like the guy in question? Just wait till he goes on a killing spree?


I guess....obviously there is no reason to take someones guns if they express a desire or are part of a group that is about violating the rights of other such as a neo-nazi cell preparing for a race war. But I would be curious to see what people who disagree with this move think should have been done.


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Sweetleaf
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19 Oct 2019, 12:38 pm

Raptor wrote:
I can see these red flag laws being abused as the criteria for dangerous people widens to include more and more situations. As it stands now anyone espousing non-progressive values is labeled a "Nazi" by the left. Speaking for myself, I'd rather live with the inherent perils of living in a free society than the illusion of safely living in a police state which these red flag laws smack of.

To be clear; by freedom I do not mean free stuff (i.e. free money, free healthcare, free housing, free higher education, etc.).


Nope not everyone on the left labels anyone with less left progressive views as a neo-nazi that is a blanket generalization. Id say a good majority of people on the left can tell the difference between a neo-nazi and someone who's just right wing.

Perhaps people here should not make blanket generalizations about the left or right, as this website hosts both left wingers and right wingers.

Also in this case the individual in question self identified themself as a nazi who supports fascism and is in a neo-nazi organization, so its not a case of mean liberals generalizing a random right winger as a nazi its a case of an actual neo-nazi.


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sly279
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19 Oct 2019, 2:12 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Red flag laws are unconstitutional as they violate due process.
Patriot act stoped bad people to but also violated the rights of millions of people.
Hopefully court rules properly, who knows Washington Might withdraws the case to avoid it like California, New York and atf have done, anything to avoid court hearing it and precedent being set against them.


What are we suppose to do with violent, racist psychopaths like the guy in question? Just wait till he goes on a killing spree?


I guess....obviously there is no reason to take someones guns if they express a desire or are part of a group that is about violating the rights of other such as a neo-nazi cell preparing for a race war. But I would be curious to see what people who disagree with this move think should have been done.


Investigation, arrest, trial by his peers.
Due process, our 5th amendment right.
It I don’t expect those in favor of removing the 1st and 2nd to care about the rest.
While illegal laws can be effective they also can be used against you and me.
That’s not worth it and that’s why the founders made it illegal.
Freedom comes with risks.



sly279
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19 Oct 2019, 2:17 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I can see these red flag laws being abused as the criteria for dangerous people widens to include more and more situations. As it stands now anyone espousing non-progressive values is labeled a "Nazi" by the left. Speaking for myself, I'd rather live with the inherent perils of living in a free society than the illusion of safely living in a police state which these red flag laws smack of.

To be clear; by freedom I do not mean free stuff (i.e. free money, free healthcare, free housing, free higher education, etc.).


Nope not everyone on the left labels anyone with less left progressive views as a neo-nazi that is a blanket generalization. Id say a good majority of people on the left can tell the difference between a neo-nazi and someone who's just right wing.

Perhaps people here should not make blanket generalizations about the left or right, as this website hosts both left wingers and right wingers.

Also in this case the individual in question self identified themself as a nazi who supports fascism and is in a neo-nazi organization, so its not a case of mean liberals generalizing a random right winger as a nazi its a case of an actual neo-nazi.

Should anyone in black lives matter and antfia, or anyone who supports them be red flagged?
So now the government can red flag anyone who disagrees with them.
People already abuse it to red flag those they don’t like. Or just any gun owners.
We need a system where people can red flags port smokers to feds, I don’t like pot smokers. :roll: least owning a gun isn’t illegal, owning weed is.

My point is you’d feel way differently if you owned guns and knew anyone for any reason could have swat knocking down your door. It’s ironical you in one thread don’t like how the Police are but in this bread supoort things that make the police that way and move use closer and closer to police run state.