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kraftiekortie
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30 Oct 2019, 8:24 pm

I take pride in my country.

It ain't perfect----but it's not as bad as many other countries, either.



TW1ZTY
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30 Oct 2019, 8:26 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I take pride in my country.

It ain't perfect----but it's not as bad as many other countries, either.


I guess the great thing about being an American is that I have the right to complain about how much I hate it here sometimes. :wtg:



kraftiekortie
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30 Oct 2019, 8:27 pm

That you do....



funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 8:46 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
You know something, I actually DO get it. Us southerners are supposed to feel ashamed and hate ourselves every waking day of our pathetic redneck lives for the sins of our past (slavery, racism, and treason). We're all supposed to hate everything about the south but feel so proud to be Americans!


Personally, I don't think Southerners need to feel anyway about themselves. Current southerners aren't the ones who committed those actions, so they don't need to bear responsibility for them. I don't believe those actions should be celebrated, and that those who celebrate those actions deserve to be condemned for that action - but just like neo-nazis didn't commit the Holocaust, neo-confederate types didn't practice slavery and commit treason - their crime is celebrating other people's historic crimes, and that's inherently a lesser crime than actually committing those actions.

Basically, southerners who understand why the southern cause isn't and wasn't sympathetic really don't have any need to feel guilt or shame or self-loathing over the actions of their ancestors. If they're not sympathetic to the Lost Cause, they've got nothing whatsoever to feel ashamed of.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


TW1ZTY
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30 Oct 2019, 8:53 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
You know something, I actually DO get it. Us southerners are supposed to feel ashamed and hate ourselves every waking day of our pathetic redneck lives for the sins of our past (slavery, racism, and treason). We're all supposed to hate everything about the south but feel so proud to be Americans!


Personally, I don't think Southerners need to feel anyway about themselves. Current southerners aren't the ones who committed those actions, so they don't need to bear responsibility for them. I don't believe those actions should be celebrated, and that those who celebrate those actions deserve to be condemned for that action - but just like neo-nazis didn't commit the Holocaust, neo-confederate types didn't practice slavery and commit treason - their crime is celebrating other people's historic crimes, and that's inherently a lesser crime than actually committing those actions.

Basically, southerners who understand why the southern cause isn't and wasn't sympathetic really don't have any need to feel guilt or shame or self-loathing over the actions of their ancestors. If they're not sympathetic to the Lost Cause, they've got nothing whatsoever to feel ashamed of.


I'm sympathetic towards anybody who ends up being a victim of war against the bloodthirsty Ammmmuuuurrrricans!! !, including the Japanese, Germans, Native Americans, Veitnamese, and Iraqies.

You know why? Because Americans always get away with their war crimes.



funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 10:10 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
You know something, I actually DO get it. Us southerners are supposed to feel ashamed and hate ourselves every waking day of our pathetic redneck lives for the sins of our past (slavery, racism, and treason). We're all supposed to hate everything about the south but feel so proud to be Americans!


Personally, I don't think Southerners need to feel anyway about themselves. Current southerners aren't the ones who committed those actions, so they don't need to bear responsibility for them. I don't believe those actions should be celebrated, and that those who celebrate those actions deserve to be condemned for that action - but just like neo-nazis didn't commit the Holocaust, neo-confederate types didn't practice slavery and commit treason - their crime is celebrating other people's historic crimes, and that's inherently a lesser crime than actually committing those actions.

Basically, southerners who understand why the southern cause isn't and wasn't sympathetic really don't have any need to feel guilt or shame or self-loathing over the actions of their ancestors. If they're not sympathetic to the Lost Cause, they've got nothing whatsoever to feel ashamed of.


I'm sympathetic towards anybody who ends up being a victim of war against the bloodthirsty Ammmmuuuurrrricans!! !, including the Japanese, Germans, Native Americans, Veitnamese, and Iraqies.

You know why? Because Americans always get away with their war crimes.


I have empathy for any civilians caught up in a military conflict, but in this specific case I have both empathy and sympathy for the people who were being kept as property; unfortunately for southern civilians, the cause they were supporting was even more morally reprehensible than the war crimes perpetuated against them were.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


TW1ZTY
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30 Oct 2019, 10:27 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
You know something, I actually DO get it. Us southerners are supposed to feel ashamed and hate ourselves every waking day of our pathetic redneck lives for the sins of our past (slavery, racism, and treason). We're all supposed to hate everything about the south but feel so proud to be Americans!


Personally, I don't think Southerners need to feel anyway about themselves. Current southerners aren't the ones who committed those actions, so they don't need to bear responsibility for them. I don't believe those actions should be celebrated, and that those who celebrate those actions deserve to be condemned for that action - but just like neo-nazis didn't commit the Holocaust, neo-confederate types didn't practice slavery and commit treason - their crime is celebrating other people's historic crimes, and that's inherently a lesser crime than actually committing those actions.

Basically, southerners who understand why the southern cause isn't and wasn't sympathetic really don't have any need to feel guilt or shame or self-loathing over the actions of their ancestors. If they're not sympathetic to the Lost Cause, they've got nothing whatsoever to feel ashamed of.


I'm sympathetic towards anybody who ends up being a victim of war against the bloodthirsty Ammmmuuuurrrricans!! !, including the Japanese, Germans, Native Americans, Veitnamese, and Iraqies.

You know why? Because Americans always get away with their war crimes.


I have empathy for any civilians caught up in a military conflict, but in this specific case I have both empathy and sympathy for the people who were being kept as property; unfortunately for southern civilians, the cause they were supporting was even more morally reprehensible than the war crimes perpetuated against them were.


The thing is contrary to popular opinion not everyone in the south supported slavery or the succession. People like the Mennonites and the Southern Unionists opposed it. Of course that did not spare them from having their homes destroyed too.

But who cares, right? It's easier to just say that everyone in the south deserved it. :P



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30 Oct 2019, 10:35 pm

Sorry if I'm being too bitterly sardonic here. It's just that talking about war always reminds me of exactly why I have little faith in humanity to do the right thing in the end.

War-hungry humans will never be satisfied of their bloodlust until we nuke the entire planet and destroy everything. And when the final war is fought and all that's left is ash, will anybody really care who was right and who was wrong in the end? :skull:



funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 11:30 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
You know something, I actually DO get it. Us southerners are supposed to feel ashamed and hate ourselves every waking day of our pathetic redneck lives for the sins of our past (slavery, racism, and treason). We're all supposed to hate everything about the south but feel so proud to be Americans!


Personally, I don't think Southerners need to feel anyway about themselves. Current southerners aren't the ones who committed those actions, so they don't need to bear responsibility for them. I don't believe those actions should be celebrated, and that those who celebrate those actions deserve to be condemned for that action - but just like neo-nazis didn't commit the Holocaust, neo-confederate types didn't practice slavery and commit treason - their crime is celebrating other people's historic crimes, and that's inherently a lesser crime than actually committing those actions.

Basically, southerners who understand why the southern cause isn't and wasn't sympathetic really don't have any need to feel guilt or shame or self-loathing over the actions of their ancestors. If they're not sympathetic to the Lost Cause, they've got nothing whatsoever to feel ashamed of.


I'm sympathetic towards anybody who ends up being a victim of war against the bloodthirsty Ammmmuuuurrrricans!! !, including the Japanese, Germans, Native Americans, Veitnamese, and Iraqies.

You know why? Because Americans always get away with their war crimes.


I have empathy for any civilians caught up in a military conflict, but in this specific case I have both empathy and sympathy for the people who were being kept as property; unfortunately for southern civilians, the cause they were supporting was even more morally reprehensible than the war crimes perpetuated against them were.


The thing is contrary to popular opinion not everyone in the south supported slavery or the succession. People like the Mennonites and the Southern Unionists opposed it. Of course that did not spare them from having their homes destroyed too.

But who cares, right? It's easier to just say that everyone in the south deserved it. :P



The Mennonites, Southern Unionists, and hillbillies/folks from the Appalachians all ended up caught between an army they maybe agreed with but was waging war in the area and their neighbours who wanted them to support that wretched cause. They most certainly did not deserve it and that's part of what makes war so tragic.


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auntblabby
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30 Oct 2019, 11:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
That you do....

at least until a few more states reach the critical mass to call a constitutional convention, where these red states can push through a repeal of the 1st amendment guarantees of free speech, among other things. i know how those people think.



sly279
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31 Oct 2019, 1:10 am

Most who fought in the CSA army were slavor ownwer nor supported it. Just as most Germany’s weren’t nazis.


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cyberdad
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31 Oct 2019, 2:21 am

TW1ZTY wrote:
Some people don't give a s**t because there really is a prejudice towards both the white people from the south and the Germans because of the terrible things they did in the past, and cyberdad has proved my point about that although I'm sure he'll deny it..


Look I have no connection to African Americans (Or africans for that matter) but I just think there's injustice the way they are treated in the United States. As an outsider to me it's not nice.

The great grandchildren of German immigrants from Nazi Germany or confederate south are "Americans" and don't have to concern themselves if they (lets just pick five examples)
1. Apply for a job in a white dominated sector
2. Try and get housing in a white area
3. go to a white school
4. get stopped by the police
5. turn up as a prom date with blonde Becky and have to explain themselves to Becky's white parents



funeralxempire
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31 Oct 2019, 2:34 am

sly279 wrote:
Most who fought in the CSA army were slavor ownwer nor supported it.


Most of them supported it, it was integral to their economy. Even for non-slave owners.


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TW1ZTY
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31 Oct 2019, 3:04 am

cyberdad wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Some people don't give a s**t because there really is a prejudice towards both the white people from the south and the Germans because of the terrible things they did in the past, and cyberdad has proved my point about that although I'm sure he'll deny it..


Look I have no connection to African Americans (Or africans for that matter) but I just think there's injustice the way they are treated in the United States. As an outsider to me it's not nice.

The great grandchildren of German immigrants from Nazi Germany or confederate south are "Americans" and don't have to concern themselves if they (lets just pick five examples)
1. Apply for a job in a white dominated sector
2. Try and get housing in a white area
3. go to a white school
4. get stopped by the police
5. turn up as a prom date with blonde Becky and have to explain themselves to Becky's white parents


Believe me I do understand this. People of color get treated like s**t in this country to this day. I witness it all the time. It's not just people of color, but also women, homosexuals, and non-Christiains too.

I myself have been called a "white island n****r" due to my dad being Polynesian and I have been subjected to homophobia.

But I guess the reason that I get sick and tired of hearing about how evil the south was during the Civil War is because like funeralxempire said earlier the north today wants to believe that abolishing slavery somehow excuses them for the other racist things they did before, during, and long after the war was over. Things like the genocide of the indigenous people in this country as one prime example.

In fact seeing as I am part Hawaiian (a 'hapa' apparently) I recently learned that the Hawaiians were no different in having their land forcibly taken from them by white Christiain settlers who basically made them give up their old way of life. They were also pretty much forced into becoming a US state shortly after World War 2 when the people did not actually want to be an official part of this country. The only reason that the American government annexed Hawaii was to rub it in the faces of the Japanese after defeating them in World War 2.



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31 Oct 2019, 4:32 am

TW1ZTY wrote:
In fact seeing as I am part Hawaiian (a 'hapa' apparently) I recently learned that the Hawaiians were no different in having their land forcibly taken from them by white Christiain settlers who basically made them give up their old way of life. They were also pretty much forced into becoming a US state shortly after World War 2 when the people did not actually want to be an official part of this country. The only reason that the American government annexed Hawaii was to rub it in the faces of the Japanese after defeating them in World War 2.


Ok I get where you are coming from. And yes there's a queue of folks wanting justice in the US not just blacks.



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31 Oct 2019, 4:45 am

I think maybe I'm biased towards defending the south because I grew up around some nice people here who I know weren't racist or ignorant. People like my mom and my sister. Also no southerner has ever called me a hillbilly.