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AngelRho
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14 Nov 2019, 4:56 pm

Borromeo wrote:
It's not entirely on topic to say this, but this thread has lasted longer than I thought it would. I never really thought of a theocratic United States of America, though such a thing exists in the minds of certain Evangelical pastors.

Ok...if it’s a theocracy you want, anyone can get it. Carve out a pocket within the state, buy some property, set some rules that EVERYONE must obey if they wish to continue to exist there. The Amish do it. Heck, Utah is pretty much a Mormon state. Fundie LDS occupies entire towns. The local church is pretty much its own village, and yes, my FAMILY has been escorted off a church campus before because an idiot staffer took issue with my wife. The RCC pretty much is a global government. And outside Christianity there are Islamist groups vying for Shariah Law in local court systems with rules that only apply to them. There’s not really anyone stopping anyone from setting up a theocracy or stopping everyone who wants to from joining one. Even Scientology has worked overtime to manipulate the legal system in their favor.

I think there are parameters within which you must cooperate with sovereign nations, compliance with state/federal law, etc. In America, this happens MOSTLY without government intrusion, although some exception is made with bakers who don’t like being told what kind of cake to make. Otherwise, people pretty much stay out of each other’s way.



Hollywood_Guy
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14 Nov 2019, 5:12 pm

It irks me that American conservative Christians are compared directly to radical Islam. :?



Fnord
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14 Nov 2019, 5:15 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
It irks me that American conservative Christians are compared directly to radical Islam.
Not me.  Sharia Law is not far removed from Puritan Law.  The punishment of heretics and so-called "witches" comes to mind as does the public humiliations of adulterers and drunkards under both sets of laws, for example.


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Hollywood_Guy
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14 Nov 2019, 5:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
It irks me that American conservative Christians are compared directly to radical Islam.
Not me.  Sharia Law is not far removed from Puritan Law.  The punishment of heretics and so-called "witches" comes to mind as does the public humiliations of adulterers and drunkards under both sets of laws, for example.


There is also the cultural difference. American conservatives are mostly Christian and believe institutions should encourage Christian morality but balanced with the tradition of liberalism (traditional and not modern-day liberalism which is more close to social democracy).



Fnord
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14 Nov 2019, 5:38 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
It irks me that American conservative Christians are compared directly to radical Islam.
Not me.  Sharia Law is not far removed from Puritan Law.  The punishment of heretics and so-called "witches" comes to mind as does the public humiliations of adulterers and drunkards under both sets of laws, for example.
... American conservatives ... believe institutions should encourage Christian morality but balanced with the tradition of liberalism (traditional and not modern-day liberalism which is more close to social democracy).
I know of no conservative that would tolerate any "liberal" interpretation of Christian morality.


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VegetableMan
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14 Nov 2019, 5:46 pm

Fnord wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
It irks me that American conservative Christians are compared directly to radical Islam.
Not me.  Sharia Law is not far removed from Puritan Law.  The punishment of heretics and so-called "witches" comes to mind as does the public humiliations of adulterers and drunkards under both sets of laws, for example.


True, but what you're talking about is in the past in Christian societies. The Salem witch trials took place centuries ago.

I'm not giving modern day Christian bigots a pass, but you can't compare their bigotry to what's going on in Middle Eastern theocracies to the U.S. and other Western democracies.


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Last edited by VegetableMan on 14 Nov 2019, 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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14 Nov 2019, 5:49 pm

It's not that way now-----but if we let the Christian Right have their way, their views and actions could potentially "evolve" towards what going on in places like Saudi Arabia.

Not saying that it would, inevitably, happen this way----but you never know.



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14 Nov 2019, 6:07 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
... I'm not giving modern day Christian bigots a pass, but you can't compare their bigotry to what's going on in Middle Eastern theocracies to the U.S. and other Western democracies.
In December 2013, the United Nations launched an inquiry to investigate rumors of atrocities committed by Christians in the Central African Republic. When the panel handed in their report, the verdict was clear: the Christian militias were guilty of ethnic cleansing.

The brutalities began to escalate when the country’s first Muslim leader, Michel Djotodia, stepped down and went into exile.  Djotodia, who had seized power in a coup, had been under pressure from regional leaders to resign.  His departure was meant to bring stability to this poor country, but humanitarian and human rights workers say there is more violence now than at any time since the coup.

In their effort to rid Central African Republic of Islam, the Christian militias have so far slaughtered some 6,000 of their Muslim neighbors.  In towns and villages as well as in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims (who are a minority), and burned and looted their houses and mosques, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers.  Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.

Thousands of Muslims hopped aboard trucks packed with their possessions, protected by soldiers from Chad, and drove out of Bangui, as Christians cheered their departures or tried to loot the trucks as they drove through Christian areas.  At least one Muslim man, who fell from a truck, was killed by a mob that also cut off his genitals and hands.

Yeah ... no comparison ... right ... given half a chance, any modern-day Christian can be just as brutal and cruel as any Muslim can.


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VegetableMan
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14 Nov 2019, 6:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
... I'm not giving modern day Christian bigots a pass, but you can't compare their bigotry to what's going on in Middle Eastern theocracies to the U.S. and other Western democracies.
In December 2013, the United Nations launched an inquiry to investigate rumors of atrocities committed by Christians in the Central African Republic. When the panel handed in their report, the verdict was clear: the Christian militias were guilty of ethnic cleansing.

The brutalities began to escalate when the country’s first Muslim leader, Michel Djotodia, stepped down and went into exile.  Djotodia, who had seized power in a coup, had been under pressure from regional leaders to resign.  His departure was meant to bring stability to this poor country, but humanitarian and human rights workers say there is more violence now than at any time since the coup.

In their effort to rid Central African Republic of Islam, the Christian militias have so far slaughtered some 6,000 of their Muslim neighbors.  In towns and villages as well as in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims (who are a minority), and burned and looted their houses and mosques, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers.  Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.

Thousands of Muslims hopped aboard trucks packed with their possessions, protected by soldiers from Chad, and drove out of Bangui, as Christians cheered their departures or tried to loot the trucks as they drove through Christian areas.  At least one Muslim man, who fell from a truck, was killed by a mob that also cut off his genitals and hands.

Yeah ... no comparison ... right ... given half a chance, any modern-day Christian can be just as brutal and cruel as any Muslim can.


Irrelevant. Hollywood Guy was talking about comparisons to radical Islamists to American conservative Christian's. Are you suggesting that such barbaric actions could take place inside the U.S.?

Try to follow the conversation a little more closely, that way you won't sound so foolish.


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14 Nov 2019, 9:49 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTgURcNNR3Q

Church Membership According to a Fairly Recent Gallup Poll has Dropped 17
Percentage Points in the Last Two Decades hovering at 52 Percent for All Adults.

If You Are under 30, the Future; it is 41 Percent.

It's Not Surprising to me at all; as i actually Visit Churches as A Hobby; The Audience is going Gray for the Most part.
In Some Cases, for Smaller Churches with no 'glitz'; it's almost All Gray Hair; what they are missing most at The
Covered Dish Get Togethers are Smart Phones; Bingo! Literally Bingo; even in Catholic Congregations Smart
Phones Will Replace the 'Opiate Addiction' to Bingo; As Candy Crush and the Such Will Still do; just as
part of the Monthly Internet Fee.

A Recent Survey Also Showed that 39 Percent of Catholics are on the Fence for Leaving the Congregation;
As Noted Scandals by The Church Per Abusing Children and the Organization that Has Over-looked that
Abuse has been on Trial; and convicted enough by increasing number of Catholics Who are Choosing to Leave.

Younger Folks; Don't buy the Myths any more; and the fact is they get Their 'Opiate Fix' somewhere else.

No Kidding; 70 Percent of Actual Catholics Don't Believe in the Major Magic Incantation that the Communion
Wafer is Actually Transmuted into the Flesh of Jesus. The Other 30 Percent Probably Believe in Trump for the Most part too. Some folks truly Crumble under the Power of Suggestion; not always a bad thing though for Quitting Smoking.

What's Sad though is, increasingly as far as Flesh and Blood contact goes for Younger People; what's
Mostly Left is only Work/School and Home; At least the Church was a place folks could Mingle; and
really get to know each other on a First Name Basis; Now there are Meet Markets; otherwise
known As Dating Apps Where Shopping online for Love is like Candy Crush too. All of
this Equates to a Drop in Population; For it is 'the Church' That Propagates Humans most.

As far as the United States going Theocratic; Ain't gonna happen as Long as
the Information Highway and Lit-Up-Screen Replacements for Living is increasing as is.

Those Churches have Been Core in Getting Republicans Elected; sooner or later the older folks will die;

But Again the Bottom Line is less Humans; Nature Dances and Sings Thank You for following the Natural Rule of Balance.

Mother Nature at 'Her' Computer Best; Birth Control for the 'Masses'; Like the one i attend every Sunday Morning.

I Go for the Social Animal Flesh and Blood Contact; that old saying when two or more of ya come Together Love Gets Present. Life is still Good When We all Get to Move, Connect, and Co-Create in Flesh and Blood; and Avatar Life
is Better than Nothing and that is for sure too; But Still, Obviously Human Beings are Evolved for more than
Three Senses of Life; Life doesn't Smell and Taste Like Much in the Cyber World; Major Factor associated
with Emotional Life of Human Beings; Take More of that away; take more Empathy Away too; as Life
no Longer Smells and Tastes as much online and that's for sure; The Touch Is Missing, Except for Keyboard life too;
And of course When Folks Hug and Or Touch Themselves For Virtual Hugs and Touches; Kisses are much Harder.

I'll tell You this; while Church is not much fun for folks who are different and don't fit in;
It's really a Blast to get together and Sing and Hold Hands; You Get to Ascend And Transcend Your Worries;
if you are unfortunate enough to experience worries; Particularly, at those Southern Baptist Singings; Even
'Sam Harris' Agrees; like a Concert too; except it is Free, if you don't do the tithing; i mostly offer up a Song and a Dance.

Speaking of that; i'm fixing to do a 3 Hour Marathon of Dance from 11 PM to 2 AM at the Biggest Metro Dance Hall.

i should get a Nap First; haha, as i am now one of the older Church Crowd too; but they check my ID to prove it at the
Dance Hall when they see me move; hehe. Church makes me Happy; The Singing at Least; the Myths i tolerate; Just
Replace all the Labels with Love.

This Nation is way too soft to even get off their butt for the Most part, for any real change; 'no' one's even really Paying Attention; but those who practice a Religion of Politics and that is the Church too, of course; it's that folks are way, way too soft; they talk big; but nothing, much face to face increasingly; like the drop off of Church Membership; But Remember 'they' have a Different 'Opiate of the 'Masses' now to continue their Couch Potato Sleepy ways.

If this keeps Happening; next thing You know someone is going to elect a 'Demagogue' as increasingly no one
really Cares about what is going on outside of their Smart Phone. But Wait! Things are sort of Falling apart slowly but surely and faster too; That's the Opposite of 'The Order' of Theocratic Control. There are 'Reasons' for Conservative too.

In other Words, Be Very Careful What Ya Wish for; the Devil in Church that and who is God is the one Folks already know.

There's a 'New Kid in Town' and He Is Bright Orange and Bleached Blonde in His 70's, trying to Hide Who He is with Smiles.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/248837/chu ... cades.aspx

https://churchpop.com/2019/08/07/new-st ... eucharist/


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AngelRho
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14 Nov 2019, 10:19 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
... I'm not giving modern day Christian bigots a pass, but you can't compare their bigotry to what's going on in Middle Eastern theocracies to the U.S. and other Western democracies.
In December 2013, the United Nations launched an inquiry to investigate rumors of atrocities committed by Christians in the Central African Republic. When the panel handed in their report, the verdict was clear: the Christian militias were guilty of ethnic cleansing.

The brutalities began to escalate when the country’s first Muslim leader, Michel Djotodia, stepped down and went into exile.  Djotodia, who had seized power in a coup, had been under pressure from regional leaders to resign.  His departure was meant to bring stability to this poor country, but humanitarian and human rights workers say there is more violence now than at any time since the coup.

In their effort to rid Central African Republic of Islam, the Christian militias have so far slaughtered some 6,000 of their Muslim neighbors.  In towns and villages as well as in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims (who are a minority), and burned and looted their houses and mosques, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers.  Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.

Thousands of Muslims hopped aboard trucks packed with their possessions, protected by soldiers from Chad, and drove out of Bangui, as Christians cheered their departures or tried to loot the trucks as they drove through Christian areas.  At least one Muslim man, who fell from a truck, was killed by a mob that also cut off his genitals and hands.

Yeah ... no comparison ... right ... given half a chance, any modern-day Christian can be just as brutal and cruel as any Muslim can.


Right...but...

1. Where in the Gospels did Jesus instruct His disciples to commit such atrocities?

2. If they aren’t following the teachings of Christ, are they really Christians?

The confusion is when you have nominal Christian groups for whom the name is little more than a label, and practices or rites amount to little more than new religious movements. Suppose I moved a few miles west to Arkansas and changed my name to Hillary Clinton. Would immediately qualify me for a Senate run in New York with guaranteed success?