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SharonB
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09 Nov 2019, 5:01 pm

I have always been dismissed from (U.S.) Jury Duty, as has my AS-like BFF; a couple times from the box, meaning we were selected, but once we opened our mouths, we were dismissed.

Most recent three summons:

The form asked if I had been arrested and my take on that and I wrote honestly: yes, I was not treated well (effectively I was arrested for a meltdown). I was the first one dismissed.

I (the overexpressive AS) was selected for the Grand Juror's Box and told "you are on this Jury, don't think you can be dismissed" and I said I really wanted to do it but was doing this and doing that and worried about this and that. Two folks were dismissed: me and the past felon (who hadn't said anything but to acknowledge that status). When we walked out I couldn't help but think we were the two that should be on a fair jury.

My BFF (the flatwas in the Juror's Box and was ---ironically--- asked the question she dreaded: about reasonable doubt. After she was dismissed a fellow juror (who remained) said they admired her for her honesty. And yet, the jury was without her.

(@Yakuzamonroe mentioned about reserving judgement for being on the jury and I can't seem to get there. If I think about it, I'll ask my AS support group if anyone has been in a jury.)

I suppose if we want to be selected we'd have to mask. Or maybe (teasing) it's best we are honest and never have to be on a Jury until they time there are folks "worse" than us that use up the dismissals.

Your thoughts?



Antrax
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10 Nov 2019, 2:11 am

Jurors get dismissed for all kinds of reasons, as both legal teams try to get the jury they think is most favorable to their case. Do you happen to have a high-level of education. Most who do get dismissed.


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SharonB
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10 Nov 2019, 8:53 am

Antrax wrote:
Jurors get dismissed for all kinds of reasons, as both legal teams try to get the jury they think is most favorable to their case. Do you happen to have a high-level of education. Most who do get dismissed.

I have a BS at a prestigious US university, but within 1 standard deviation of norm I think. My IQ is 2-3 standard deviations up. My ability to verbally communicate at least 1 standard deviation down.

If I weren't afraid to create a WP poll, I would do one. I am a study hound, but can't readily find one online to see if AS is underrepresented (or over) as Jurors relative to our part of the population. I do find we are overrepresented as defendants (take my meltdown arrest as an example).

I find a few previous posts on WP of ASD folks who have been jurors. I found a lot of "They all picked on me to change my view to theirs and I wouldn't back down. It got quite threatening." Some AS folks stood their ground and some caved. Reminds me of the movie 12 Angry Men that made an impression on me as a child. Even then I had the sense my reasoning was more like the "odd man out".

I find one link that interesting to me: https://juryclass.blogspot.com/2019/02/ ... -duty.html

Thanks for the response.



killerBunny
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10 Nov 2019, 10:50 am

Both sides pick the jurors. They want predictable outcomes. They want individuals who’s behaviours would be in the centre of a standard bell curve. People with autism will generally not fall in that area. I would say the anxiety, the lack proper mirroring and just overall perceived weirdness would make it pretty hard to be picked. Just like every other facet of life, you will be picked last.



SharonB
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10 Nov 2019, 2:06 pm

killerBunny wrote:
...Just like every other facet of life, you will be picked last.

Yep. I remember being confused as a child when I was picked near last. I had so much to offer! Apparently I haven't changed and nor has the world. Thanks for writing the obvious, which I am remain reluctant to face.

Oh, perhaps our behavior would be fairly unpredictably predictable... Justice! :wink:



Fnord
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10 Nov 2019, 4:39 pm

I get so angry at the other people who get selected for their obviously PC answers...

("... I really cannot say at this moment whether or not the accused is guilty because I have not yet heard all the testimony and reviews all the evidence ... blah ... blah ... blah ...)

... that I address the court in the most direct and un-PC way possible that won't get me arrested ...

(... well, yet honor, based on what little evidence has already been presented, I cannot promise that I would not already insist on a conviction during jury deliberations ...)

... so between my Bill Buckley vocabulary, my deadpan delivery, and the way that I basically say the accused is guilty, I always get dismissed.

Sure, it might be interesting to serve on a jury, but why put myself through the hassle of what is essentially 12 students locked in a classroom without a teacher to keep order and put a stop to all the intimidation and bullying?


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SharonB
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10 Nov 2019, 5:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
(... well, yet honor, based on what little evidence has already been presented, I cannot promise that I would not already insist on a conviction during jury deliberations ...)

I find that my AS-like BFF and I are opposites in many ways (I'm "hyper-", she's "hypo-") and I find my opposite here in you. I would be like "The rules say 'innocent' until proven ---- wait, there is ALWAYS doubt, so where is the line for Reasonable?"

Fnord wrote:
Sure, it might be interesting to serve on a jury, but why put myself through the hassle of what is essentially 12 students locked in a classroom without a teacher to keep order and put a stop to all the intimidation and bullying?

You have a point there. I am typically very optimistic (this will be fun!! !!) and then I am typically disappointed ("too" this and that ---meltdown/shutdown).

Thanks for your input!



Bravo5150
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12 Nov 2019, 7:54 am

If it makes you feel any better about not being selected, I got called in for jury duty one time and somehow the entire pool of prospective jurors got dismissed after I asked a question in orientation.



SharonB
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12 Nov 2019, 8:06 am

Bravo5150 wrote:
If it makes you feel any better about not being selected, I got called in for jury duty one time and somehow the entire pool of prospective jurors got dismissed after I asked a question in orientation.

Oh, wow. Do tell.



Bravo5150
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12 Nov 2019, 8:14 am

SharonB wrote:
Bravo5150 wrote:
If it makes you feel any better about not being selected, I got called in for jury duty one time and somehow the entire pool of prospective jurors got dismissed after I asked a question in orientation.

Oh, wow. Do tell.


In orientation, before going to our respective courtrooms, I asked "Will I be allowed to ask any questions to the witnesses if a point pops into my head that neither the prosecutor or defense attorney brings up?" Instead of a direct yes or no answer, she briefly left the room then came back about five minutes later to announce "there are no jurors needed today, everyone plead out."

I don't know if the story about all the pleas was a true coincidence or a story to avoid tipping the other 99 or so jurors off on how to respond to get out of their duty.



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12 Nov 2019, 8:45 am

We don't have jury selection in England. If your name gets picked then you're on the jury, unless you have criminal convictions or you know someone involved in the case. I've never had my name picked although that's not surprising.

I think I'd be a prosecutor's nightmare. I believe in jury nullification, I don't think witness testimony is reliable, and I'd be more likely than most to pick up on bad use of forensics.

Antrax wrote:
Jurors get dismissed for all kinds of reasons, as both legal teams try to get the jury they think is most favorable to their case. Do you happen to have a high-level of education. Most who do get dismissed.

8O

Surely that's an affront to justice?



Bravo5150
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12 Nov 2019, 8:49 am

The_Walrus wrote:
We don't have jury selection in England. If your name gets picked then you're on the jury, unless you have criminal convictions or you know someone involved in the case. I've never had my name picked although that's not surprising.

I think I'd be a prosecutor's nightmare. I believe in jury nullification, I don't think witness testimony is reliable, and I'd be more likely than most to pick up on bad use of forensics.

Antrax wrote:
Jurors get dismissed for all kinds of reasons, as both legal teams try to get the jury they think is most favorable to their case. Do you happen to have a high-level of education. Most who do get dismissed.

8O

Surely that's an affront to justice?


Are you saying that there is no "job interview" by both attorneys, that they just draw your name and you are automatically on the jury in the UK?



kraftiekortie
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12 Nov 2019, 8:52 am

I work in the courts....but I was picked for a civil case once

(Civil, as opposed to criminal).



Bravo5150
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12 Nov 2019, 8:55 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I work in the courts....but I was picked for a civil case once

(Civil, as opposed to criminal).


You were actually selected to hear the case?



kraftiekortie
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12 Nov 2019, 8:57 am

I was on the jury.

When saying you’re “selected to hear a case,” it could mean you’re the judge or magistrate for the case.

The aggrieved party ultimately settled. I didn’t have to deliberate.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 12 Nov 2019, 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.