Son Asking for Social Security Number
I wish conditions were as they were in the 19th century for starting your own business.
Make sure you incorporate yourself as an LLC.
Merry Christmas to you to as well my friend.
We will be successful in our own business. For the sake of our future children.
And, we've already started the paperwork to incorporate as a LLC.
Teach51
Veteran
Joined: 28 Jan 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,808
Location: Where angels do not fear to tread.
Merry Christmas!
There are some amazing parents here.
I share Kraftie's wishes for cube
In my own experience, no matter how much I planned for every possible scenario while raising my children, something unexpected came and bit them in the ass.
The AS people I know are not constant. Some experience burnout temporarily, some never recover. We can tell them to snap out of it but they cannot predict it, neither can they control it.
It is hard for us NT's to imagine sensory overload, meltdowns, my friend can have a hard time just recovering from a walk in the wind.
I have a friend who worked in one of the most prestigious cyber security hi tech companies in the world. It's so difficult to get employment there. One day life gave him a problem that tipped the scales and that was it. Couldn't do the job anymore. I feel calmer about my aspie loved ones who have caring families, brothers and sisters. I know they will always be cherished and loved. I worry about those who don't have this support.
The best we can do is try and give our kids the education and guidance needed to thrive, but unfortunately there are no guarantees. It may work for 30 years or 5 so a back up plan and the understanding that not every problem can be fixed and that autistic people cannot just buck up and fix themselves on demand is crucial.
_________________
My best will just have to be good enough.
a. You need to have a solid definition as to what you mean by "live independent" and what you mean by "normal life" written down.
b. You need to do a feasibility analysis on both your children and the society at large including employment including SWOT analysis. Don't just look at your child's strengths and weaknesses. You need to look at the opportunities and threats as well and continue to look at these things as time passes. The truth of the matter is what happens when your child is in that chair in the interviewer's office being interviewed or being on the phone. It is that interviewer who decides. It doesn't matter how intelligent your child is.
c. With b being said, is your child going to be able to be themselves? Or, are they going to have to pretend, like and fake their way through the interview and with their colleagues on a daily basis? This article is about white privilege and professional standards. https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_bia ... _standards
I think the ideas can apply to us as well.
Is your child going to be able to meet the professional standards? Including eye contact? Not having a monotone voice? Firm handshakes? None of these are natural for me? And, let's not forget the idea of "taking initative." Will your child be able to do this? This requires observation skills. This requires the child to being able to intuit the wants and needs of the supervisors, bosses and management. Will your child be able to do this without an excellent theory of mind? And, let's say he simply doesn't see anything at all so he never thought about it?
Personally, I'm a deep, philosophical thinker who is always in my own head. I am naturally unobservant. So, can I really take the initative if I am this way?
You need to truthfully understand what you're dealing with when it comes to your children. And, look at it not from parent mode who loves her children dearly and think the world of them but look at it from the employer's perspective. How much time and money would it cost for any accomodations your kids may require? If they need further detailed instructions like I do how will that mesh with the employer who's main goal is to be in and run a business?
d. Parents are approaching employment the same way they approached when their children attended school. It does not work b/c the school's goal is to educate and they get their funding through tax dollars. Employers get their funding from profit by their customers. And, if your child is indirectly becoming a liability they won't be hired or they will be sacked quickly.
My opinion: You can't make someone into something they're not. Forcing an autistic person to mesh with an employer of today in which they would have to pretend to be something they're not does not work. It is not pride at all if one has to pretend and be a liar just to maintain one's livelyhood especially if it is at jobs you "can't" do and "don't want" to do. It does not work to go into an interview to answer a question of "why do you want to work here" especially if one may be forced to work at a job he may not wish to do all so one can have a livelyhood and be independent. How can they be honest and truthful then? It doesn't work. One can't fit a square peg into a round hole.
Employment of today is a whole bunch of double-think and mixed-signals. Can an All or Nothing Spectrimite really do this without having a sense of a fragmented mind? We're all told as we're growing up honesty is the best policy yet when it comes to employers it is apparently not. Thanks but no thanks! Pride isn't worth it! I'd rather my parents institutionalize me.
Above, you've summed up some of the many reasons why we need Autistic-friendly workplaces.
And the only way more autistic-friendly workplaces will get created is if we build a much better-organized autistic community than now exists, including groups of autistic people who work in or desire to work in particular categories of professions/occupations/jobs.
If any NT parents out there are willing to help us create these groups, that would be great.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)
Good question, since I don't know if I've ever tried to define it. I think my answer is this: Ultimately that my adult children can live a relatively "normal" life if something happened to us parents. To not be dependent on us or aid from society.
Obviously the last piece isn't going to happen with a highly disabled adult child or anyone who doesn't have the right skill set for a living wage job, but a parent is still going to make sure they can cover as many bases as the adult child's skill set will allow. It's a matter of pride for any adult to NOT feel completely dependent and devoid of skill, so why wouldn't you give that to your child if you can? I've seen it with the highly disabled adults I've met: the more they can handle on their own, the happier they are. Most people take a lot of pride in the things they do on their own; being disabled doesn't change that. So good parents help their children maximize it.
Right now my son is living with us while he looks for a career job (and works on some of his unpaid passions, which he may eventually be able to monetize) but I can assign him things to do to help us out without worrying if he knows how to do it. If he needs instructions, he'll ask. I know he is capable of living independently and I'm just enjoying having him around during this relatively short life interlude.
My opinion and you may not like what I have to say.
a. You need to have a solid definition as to what you mean by "live independent" and what you mean by "normal life" written down.
b. You need to do a feasibility analysis on both your children and the society at large including employment including SWOT analysis. Don't just look at your child's strengths and weaknesses. You need to look at the opportunities and threats as well and continue to look at these things as time passes. The truth of the matter is what happens when your child is in that chair in the interviewer's office being interviewed or being on the phone. It is that interviewer who decides. It doesn't matter how intelligent your child is.
c. With b being said, is your child going to be able to be themselves? Or, are they going to have to pretend, like and fake their way through the interview and with their colleagues on a daily basis? This article is about white privilege and professional standards. https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_bia ... _standards
I think the ideas can apply to us as well.
Is your child going to be able to meet the professional standards? Including eye contact? Not having a monotone voice? Firm handshakes? None of these are natural for me? And, let's not forget the idea of "taking initative." Will your child be able to do this? This requires observation skills. This requires the child to being able to intuit the wants and needs of the supervisors, bosses and management. Will your child be able to do this without an excellent theory of mind? And, let's say he simply doesn't see anything at all so he never thought about it?
Personally, I'm a deep, philosophical thinker who is always in my own head. I am naturally unobservant. So, can I really take the initative if I am this way?
You need to truthfully understand what you're dealing with when it comes to your children. And, look at it not from parent mode who loves her children dearly and think the world of them but look at it from the employer's perspective. How much time and money would it cost for any accomodations your kids may require? If they need further detailed instructions like I do how will that mesh with the employer who's main goal is to be in and run a business?
d. Parents are approaching employment the same way they approached when their children attended school. It does not work b/c the school's goal is to educate and they get their funding through tax dollars. Employers get their funding from profit by their customers. And, if your child is indirectly becoming a liability they won't be hired or they will be sacked quickly.
My opinion: You can't make someone into something they're not. Forcing an autistic person to mesh with an employer of today in which they would have to pretend to be something they're not does not work. It is not pride at all if one has to pretend and be a liar just to maintain one's livelyhood especially if it is at jobs you "can't" do and "don't want" to do. It does not work to go into an interview to answer a question of "why do you want to work here" especially if one may be forced to work at a job he may not wish to do all so one can have a livelyhood and be independent. How can they be honest and truthful then? It doesn't work. One can't fit a square peg into a round hole.
Employment of today is a whole bunch of double-think and mixed-signals. Can an All or Nothing Spectrimite really do this without having a sense of a fragmented mind? We're all told as we're growing up honesty is the best policy yet when it comes to employers it is apparently not. Thanks but no thanks! Pride isn't worth it! I'd rather my parents institutionalize me.
My son has held management level and leadership positions in summer jobs and school clubs. We've practiced interview skills with him numerous times. I've watched him around people and paid attention to how they react to him. He isn't a monotone type of guy; he acted in high school, and once he is told the "part" he needs to play, he knows how to act the part. I have not tried to make him into something he isn't, but I have taught him how the game gets that played so he can throw the ball in the right direction when he wants or needs to.
My daughter is mostly NT and has already received promotions in her part time job. But she is the one who absolutely positively must figure things out for herself, so there really isn't much I can do for her beyond providing a soft landing when things don't work out.
I'm the one who likes to live in my head and be oblivious to everything around me. It made starting a career rocky, but once I had the top skills it mattered a whole lot less. I have a reasonable balance of perfectionism and eye on company profit; not an ideal one, but reasonable enough to get by. I am very good at what I do, it comes across quickly when in conversation, and people really respect me, even if sometimes they wish I was a little less "me."
I'm not going to worry about problems that don't exist in my family or the people I work with and mentor. I can adapt to changing conditions and needs when they happen. I'm not someone who holds onto a lot of information, so there really is no point in creating a zillion protocols that don't meet immediate needs. My strongest asset is being a very fast learner. I can quickly sift through information and find the nuggets I need when I need them. It's just how I need to do things, and it gets me and my family by well enough.
As for initiative, it has always been natural to my ASD son. In his head, there is always a better way to do everything, you just have to find it, and he is driven to find it. Or, at least, to find his own unique way to do things, even if they aren't better. For him, the challenge was learning to accept it when his ideas are overridden or initiative not appreciated; learning to do things the way instructed without always having to change it up. That was a hard lesson for him, but he has learned it, even if I still can't say he likes it..
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
Another big issue with survival in the NT world is simply knowing what you are and are not capable of, and what where your strengths and weaknesses lie. You can say this is true for everyone, but immeasurably more so for AS people.
When I was a kid / young adult people just thought I was weird because I wasn't "autistic" enough not go to school--which was the criterion then. (Autism was still widely regarded as juvenile schizophrenia!) I had no support, no guidance, and was just thrown out into the adult world and expected to deal with it. I floundered for years and wasted a huge amount of my life struggling at the wrong things in the wrong ways. If I had known I was AS, if I had understood my own powers and limitations, I could have made much better choices and not taken so many wrong paths.
My son has the advantages of an early diagnosis and a father (me) who can relate to and guide him in his struggles. Life in the NT world still won't be easy for him, but he'll have a big head start over the young me. He will be much better prepared to make life choices that allow him to use his strengths and downplay his weaknesses.
Some of the "disability" part of AS may well be inherent, but a lot of it is due to both society's lack of acceptance and the AS person's lack of preparation for adult life.
_________________
"Donkeys live a long time. None of you has ever seen a dead donkey."
Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, all did quite alright with their "disability." Sure, there were challenges. I can think of when Bill Gates had to appear in the US Congress to fight against his antitrust case; or when Steve Jobs had to deal with accepting his own daughter, or to handle his biological father, or to handle being fired; or when Elon Musk had his big mouth about "funding secured" and the "pedo guy." They got through the problems because they had their teams. They often came through scathed. Still, you can't say that the rest of the world has been overtly hostile towards these three guys.
Mother Nature made autistic people for a reason: to balance out neurotypical people. My best friends have invariably been neurotypical people. I married one for a good reason. It's about balancing things out, kind of achieving Yin-Yang harmony. I have learned that, when you have to fight, your first step should be: to assemble your team. In short, it's not so much about overcoming your "disability," but more about excelling in your "ability," so that other people may see value in you, and be willing to work with you as a team. It's always a two-way street. Neurotypical people often succeed because they have autistic people on their team, and vice-versa, autistic people (like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Elon Musk) can succeed, too, when they have neurotypical people on their team. The mayor of Taipei, who is autistic, always has an assistant behind him when he talks publicly to reporters, so to minimize gaffes. I mean, the best solution to "disability" is not to force yourself to go against your nature, but to have a team where other people can complement your skills. Autistic people should keep in mind: be yourself, but have a team. That's the way Mother Nature has always intended, anyway.
a. You need to have a solid definition as to what you mean by "live independent" and what you mean by "normal life" written down.
b. You need to do a feasibility analysis on both your children and the society at large including employment including SWOT analysis. Don't just look at your child's strengths and weaknesses. You need to look at the opportunities and threats as well and continue to look at these things as time passes. The truth of the matter is what happens when your child is in that chair in the interviewer's office being interviewed or being on the phone. It is that interviewer who decides. It doesn't matter how intelligent your child is.
c. With b being said, is your child going to be able to be themselves? Or, are they going to have to pretend, like and fake their way through the interview and with their colleagues on a daily basis? This article is about white privilege and professional standards. https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_bia ... _standards
I think the ideas can apply to us as well.
Is your child going to be able to meet the professional standards? Including eye contact? Not having a monotone voice? Firm handshakes? None of these are natural for me? And, let's not forget the idea of "taking initative." Will your child be able to do this? This requires observation skills. This requires the child to being able to intuit the wants and needs of the supervisors, bosses and management. Will your child be able to do this without an excellent theory of mind? And, let's say he simply doesn't see anything at all so he never thought about it?
Personally, I'm a deep, philosophical thinker who is always in my own head. I am naturally unobservant. So, can I really take the initative if I am this way?
You need to truthfully understand what you're dealing with when it comes to your children. And, look at it not from parent mode who loves her children dearly and think the world of them but look at it from the employer's perspective. How much time and money would it cost for any accomodations your kids may require? If they need further detailed instructions like I do how will that mesh with the employer who's main goal is to be in and run a business?
d. Parents are approaching employment the same way they approached when their children attended school. It does not work b/c the school's goal is to educate and they get their funding through tax dollars. Employers get their funding from profit by their customers. And, if your child is indirectly becoming a liability they won't be hired or they will be sacked quickly.
My opinion: You can't make someone into something they're not. Forcing an autistic person to mesh with an employer of today in which they would have to pretend to be something they're not does not work. It is not pride at all if one has to pretend and be a liar just to maintain one's livelyhood especially if it is at jobs you "can't" do and "don't want" to do. It does not work to go into an interview to answer a question of "why do you want to work here" especially if one may be forced to work at a job he may not wish to do all so one can have a livelyhood and be independent. How can they be honest and truthful then? It doesn't work. One can't fit a square peg into a round hole.
Employment of today is a whole bunch of double-think and mixed-signals. Can an All or Nothing Spectrimite really do this without having a sense of a fragmented mind? We're all told as we're growing up honesty is the best policy yet when it comes to employers it is apparently not. Thanks but no thanks! Pride isn't worth it! I'd rather my parents institutionalize me.
Above, you've summed up some of the many reasons why we need Autistic-friendly workplaces.
And the only way more autistic-friendly workplaces will get created is if we build a much better-organized autistic community than now exists, including groups of autistic people who work in or desire to work in particular categories of professions/occupations/jobs.
If any NT parents out there are willing to help us create these groups, that would be great.
And, I would add read http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/howifoundfreedom.pdf
Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, all did quite alright with their "disability." Sure, there were challenges. I can think of when Bill Gates had to appear in the US Congress to fight against his antitrust case; or when Steve Jobs had to deal with accepting his own daughter, or to handle his biological father, or to handle being fired; or when Elon Musk had his big mouth about "funding secured" and the "pedo guy." They got through the problems because they had their teams. They often came through scathed. Still, you can't say that the rest of the world has been overtly hostile towards these three guys.
Mother Nature made autistic people for a reason: to balance out neurotypical people. My best friends have invariably been neurotypical people. I married one for a good reason. It's about balancing things out, kind of achieving Yin-Yang harmony. I have learned that, when you have to fight, your first step should be: to assemble your team. In short, it's not so much about overcoming your "disability," but more about excelling in your "ability," so that other people may see value in you, and be willing to work with you as a team. It's always a two-way street. Neurotypical people often succeed because they have autistic people on their team, and vice-versa, autistic people (like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Elon Musk) can succeed, too, when they have neurotypical people on their team. The mayor of Taipei, who is autistic, always has an assistant behind him when he talks publicly to reporters, so to minimize gaffes. I mean, the best solution to "disability" is not to force yourself to go against your nature, but to have a team where other people can complement your skills. Autistic people should keep in mind: be yourself, but have a team. That's the way Mother Nature has always intended, anyway.
How do you know any of these guys are disabled whatsoever?
It seems like the Autism community is using these guys as examples of those with disabilties and success yet no evidence exists that they've been diagnosed with anything whatsoever.
I agree! We had the physicist Stephen Hawking. I'm a great fan of his.
But, what I asked was how does he know those three particular people have any kind of disability at all? Where is the evidence? Diagnostic reports? Did any of them ever claim that they have any disability at all or was it simply mere speculation?
Let me ask you this. If your son both had neither the desire nor the ability to play this "part" how would you regard him and how would the rest of society regard him?
Let's ask another question. If your son had not the desire but had the ability to play this "part" how would you regard him and how would the rest of society regard him?
What would be the consequences from yourself and the rest of society if he chose not to play and said he didn't wish to play?
If he has little to no choice other then to play this part then is he not being forced to pretend to be something he is not especially if there are really no alternatives?
What exactly are his choices when it comes to employment and one is forced to pretend to be something one is not and honesty is no longer the best policy?
This is a major issue that black people face as well b/c a number of them have to code switch in a society where Caucasian is the majority with its own rules and standards for conformity. And, this conformity is an absolute must. And, this is what is being demand of Autistic people as well. Yet, we're being told to be ourselves and honesty is the best policy when it is obvious that when it comes to some people they're not allowed to be who they truly are and honest with themselves and each other.
The dominant, Caucasian NT culture does not allow it. It's a whole bunch of mixed signals and double-think.
How do we function in a world that demands honesty yet demands dishonesty at the same.
Let me ask you this. If your son both had neither the desire nor the ability to play this "part" how would you regard him and how would the rest of society regard him?
Let's ask another question. If your son had not the desire but had the ability to play this "part" how would you regard him and how would the rest of society regard him?
What would be the consequences from yourself and the rest of society if he chose not to play and said he didn't wish to play?
If he has little to no choice other then to play this part then is he not being forced to pretend to be something he is not especially if there are really no alternatives?
What exactly are his choices when it comes to employment and one is forced to pretend to be something one is not and honesty is no longer the best policy?
This is a major issue that black people face as well b/c a number of them have to code switch in a society where Caucasian is the majority with its own rules and standards for conformity. And, this conformity is an absolute must. And, this is what is being demand of Autistic people as well. Yet, we're being told to be ourselves and honesty is the best policy when it is obvious that when it comes to some people they're not allowed to be who they truly are and honest with themselves and each other.
The dominant, Caucasian NT culture does not allow it. It's a whole bunch of mixed signals and double-think.
How do we function in a world that demands honesty yet demands dishonesty at the same.
To different extents everyone gets caught up in the "game" of succeeding in life. Social rules force a lot of behaviors that aren't natural to most people. You are spot on about the central issue, and I do understand it is most damaging to those whose natural instincts place them furthest from the expected norm. I don't know what to say to that, I would like the world to be different, but learning how to play is the way I've survived life to date, and teaching it to my son using those terms (calling it a game and a role) is the the only way I know for helping him achieve his goals. It's his choice what he wants to do with the information, but like most people he is driven to achieve independence and wants to succeed at his own goals. While he tries to stay as true to his natural self as possible, he'll make the trade off when the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow looks appealing enough. Finding the right balance is a never ending conversation.
The push - pull between "being yourself" and conforming is also more difficult the further you are from the expected norm. Overall I guess I would say that no one gets to be 100% themselves every hour of every day, but past a minimal set of norms that hopefully most people can accurately learn so early on in their lives they become second nature, it's time to find a balance. When you "try too hard" it is often obvious and difficult to be around in large part because few people accurately perceive what is really wanted from them. Given a choice between trying to play the game and playing it wrong, v simply electing out of playing at all, the later is much more likely to gain positive results. There also is only so much "playing a part" most people can take; at some point we NEED to be able to be who we are without pressure to be something else. So, again, I feel like finding the right balance is a never ending process. If A hasn't been working, try B. If B hasn't been working, try A. Its a dance that I do not find easy to explain or teach; I think the parts of me that are on the spectrum have made my own journey trying, but there are also things I've learned well enough to have success with. With my son I had 18 years of seeing of him every day to try to help him figure out what works for him. These are things we have talked SO much about as he was growing up, and still occasionally talk about as new situations and issues arise.
My son has an ASD girlfriend that had to grow up without the benefit of her family knowing she was ASD, and apparently they haven't had those constant conversations. Apparently, she really struggles. My son has said she needs someone like me in her life, and he's trying to be that for her. I don't know how to give that to everyone. It would have been nice if I had had that and hadn't had to figure out so much on my own, too, but I am glad to have figured out as much as I have.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
DW_a_mom, I'm older, so, like your son's girlfriend, I grew up without any support or understanding (quite the opposite). If I'd had realistic conversations of the sort you're describing with someone that understood me, I think I might have avoided many wasted years and wrong choices. Over many years, I veered wildly between being a social outcast and overcompensating, making myself crazy trying to fit in. Anyway, it's too late to change all that and now, at this late date, I do have a sort of balance. What I can do for my AS son is make sure he understands his own strengths, obstacles, and options--and how he will have to negotiate between his own way of thinking and the NT world. I know he'll have struggles--because he is different--but he'll have a big head start over me.
_________________
"Donkeys live a long time. None of you has ever seen a dead donkey."
Thank you for sharing a little bit about your journey. Glad to hear you now have a balance that more or less works for you. I know it can be crazy hard.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
_________________
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