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Twilightprincess
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29 Nov 2019, 8:13 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Actually oddly enough even believing that "the dinosaurs all died in the flood" is a bit of a heresy among YECs.

Even THAT would be too logical for some strict Fundies (the dinos existed, but all died in the flood because Noah didn't rescue them- at least that would make some superficial sense).

But the Bible doesn't say that Noah left animals off the Ark.

Ken Haim, the founder and CEO of the "Ark Experience" park in Kentucky, says that Noah wrangled dinosaurs, and put them on the Ark as well. And that dinos (apparently) survived on Earth for sometime after Noah's flood (in 2300 BC according to the King James).He has dinosaurs as passengers on his replica Ark. Some Creationist books even show Jesus riding saddled up tricerotopses.


I really want to go to there. It sounds hysterical! Then again, maybe I shouldn’t be supporting it by paying admission...



Twilightprincess
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29 Nov 2019, 8:16 pm

jimmy m wrote:
When I was growing up, one of my elementary school teachers taught reincarnation. She spent a hour describing how her father died and was reincarnated as an insect. She forbad everyone in the class from killing an insect because it might be a loved one from the past.


Wow! That’s pretty crazy!



magz
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30 Nov 2019, 3:05 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
magz wrote:
With the Christmas greetings, I think political correctness twisted it in a bit strange way: the only person in one of my husband's ex-workplaces who didn't have any problem with saying Merry Christmas to everyone was... Egyptian Muslim.


Lots of kids who don’t celebrate Christmas are uncomfortable when someone wishes them a Merry Christmas. It made me feel uncomfortable and like even more of an outsider than I already was, and I’ve heard the same from Jewish and Muslim students.

It’s a bit grating. It would really suck when someone would ask me if I had been a good girl that year and if Santa had brought me something nice. Awkward!

“Happy Holidays“ or “have a nice vacation” are more inclusive terms to use with students who may have diverse religious backgrounds. Religious holidays should really be kept out of public schools as much as possible.

That's probably a local culture thing but here some religious holidays (Christmas, Easter, Day of the Dead) are celebrated by atheists, too - the family meeting aspect goes beyond religion.


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naturalplastic
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30 Nov 2019, 7:30 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Actually oddly enough even believing that "the dinosaurs all died in the flood" is a bit of a heresy among YECs.

Even THAT would be too logical for some strict Fundies (the dinos existed, but all died in the flood because Noah didn't rescue them- at least that would make some superficial sense).

But the Bible doesn't say that Noah left animals off the Ark.

Ken Haim, the founder and CEO of the "Ark Experience" park in Kentucky, says that Noah wrangled dinosaurs, and put them on the Ark as well. And that dinos (apparently) survived on Earth for sometime after Noah's flood (in 2300 BC according to the King James).He has dinosaurs as passengers on his replica Ark. Some Creationist books even show Jesus riding saddled up tricerotopses.


I really want to go to there. It sounds hysterical! Then again, maybe I shouldn’t be supporting it by paying admission...

Yeah. I was thinking of seeing it too. But it IS rather expensive. More than your average roadside tourist trap. But...

There are tons of U Tube vids of it. More than one vloggers has managed to tape the "Ark Experience" experience.

Here is one of the more recent:



Last edited by naturalplastic on 30 Nov 2019, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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30 Nov 2019, 7:40 am

magz wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
magz wrote:
With the Christmas greetings, I think political correctness twisted it in a bit strange way: the only person in one of my husband's ex-workplaces who didn't have any problem with saying Merry Christmas to everyone was... Egyptian Muslim.


Lots of kids who don’t celebrate Christmas are uncomfortable when someone wishes them a Merry Christmas. It made me feel uncomfortable and like even more of an outsider than I already was, and I’ve heard the same from Jewish and Muslim students.

It’s a bit grating. It would really suck when someone would ask me if I had been a good girl that year and if Santa had brought me something nice. Awkward!

“Happy Holidays“ or “have a nice vacation” are more inclusive terms to use with students who may have diverse religious backgrounds. Religious holidays should really be kept out of public schools as much as possible.

That's probably a local culture thing but here some religious holidays (Christmas, Easter, Day of the Dead) are celebrated by atheists, too - the family meeting aspect goes beyond religion.


The US has Muslims, and Jews, and Wiccans. More of those than Poland has.

But on the other hand the United Kingdom has Jews, Muslim immigrants for British commonwealth countries like Pakistan, and so forth. Similar diversity to that of the US. But apparently its not an issue in the UK either. "Merry Christmas" is fine there, according to Brits on WP. Whatever.



Twilightprincess
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30 Nov 2019, 8:05 am

magz wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
magz wrote:
With the Christmas greetings, I think political correctness twisted it in a bit strange way: the only person in one of my husband's ex-workplaces who didn't have any problem with saying Merry Christmas to everyone was... Egyptian Muslim.


Lots of kids who don’t celebrate Christmas are uncomfortable when someone wishes them a Merry Christmas. It made me feel uncomfortable and like even more of an outsider than I already was, and I’ve heard the same from Jewish and Muslim students.

It’s a bit grating. It would really suck when someone would ask me if I had been a good girl that year and if Santa had brought me something nice. Awkward!

“Happy Holidays“ or “have a nice vacation” are more inclusive terms to use with students who may have diverse religious backgrounds. Religious holidays should really be kept out of public schools as much as possible.

That's probably a local culture thing but here some religious holidays (Christmas, Easter, Day of the Dead) are celebrated by atheists, too - the family meeting aspect goes beyond religion.


Families can get together on occasions that aren’t religiously oriented. I’ve always seen way more of my family than I wanted to. Lol

How do you know nonChristian (or nonChristmas celebrating Christian children) aren’t uncomfortable during such times in your country? I can assure you that Jehovah’s Witness children are (whether they tell you or not) because they’re much the same everywhere. Certainly, many JW children in the UK are. I’ve talked to some of them.

I never told anyone I was uncomfortable (other than talking with other people in my group who felt similarly).

Feeling uncomfortable could affect a child’s learning. It might not seem like a big deal to an adult but it’s a big deal to a child. I celebrate Christmas now solely because I noticed my son’s discomfort around this time of year. Being an atheist I’m kind of “meh” about it, but if it went against strong religious beliefs (that I was betraying God or something), that’d be a different story. There’s a lot of nuances here that most people aren’t cognizant of.

Schools with more diverse populations often have a “Winter Celebration” to keep a festive atmosphere but to remove the religious connotations of what used to be Christmas. Even when one tries to keep Christ out of Christmas, he’s always there somewhere. Just look at the title.



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30 Nov 2019, 9:40 am

My University tries to be inclusive by mentioning a wide variety of holidays from different cultures.

However, my secondary and primary schools mainly focused on Christianity. The latter is understandable considering that my primary school was a church school. We had to go to church every Thursday afternoon.

In the case of my secondary, it wasn't officially a religious school but it tended to push us towards Christianity regardless. Often on the last week before winter break we would have an assembly about the "true meaning of Christmas", which was usually met with a collective groan. I remember one assembly where a Christian youth club came in to talk to us. They showed us a picture of a cartoon living room decorated for Christmas and we had to name what was missing. People yelled out suggestions for better presents, and one person pointed out that fire safety was missing because the stockings were too close to the blazing fire. Predictably, the answer they were looking for was Jesus.

After the assembly came to a close, the youth club handed out Bibles to everyone. Sure, you could refuse, but that would hold up the line and no one wanted to be that person. Even the Muslim students took one. Later on that week we had to have another school conversation because some of the students from my school had publicly destroyed their Bibles, which upset the locals.

I have three Bibles that were given to me by my schools, and I'm an atheist. My parents had to meet certain requirements in order to qualify for a place at my primary school. It apparently had a good reputation, but fell under new management when I was there. Unfortunately, that's when things went downhill really fast.

The requirements were that parents must attend at least two weeks of church, and the child needs to be Christened. Of course, living in the area helps. I was actually Christened at the church that is a part of the primary school. My parents aren't religious, the only reason they went out of their way to meet those requirements was due to the school having such a wonderful reputation. Now my mum sometimes cries because she wishes she knew the full extent of what happened in that place, and she's sorry she didn't take me out of that school and file a report against them. I'm in University now. My parents still feel bad. I keep telling them it's fine. Hopefully the management is much better these days, for the sake of the kids.

Apologies for going off the main topic somewhat.


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30 Nov 2019, 10:01 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
My University tries to be inclusive by mentioning a wide variety of holidays from different cultures.

However, my secondary and primary schools mainly focused on Christianity. The latter is understandable considering that my primary school was a church school. We had to go to church every Thursday afternoon.

In the case of my secondary, it wasn't officially a religious school but it tended to push us towards Christianity regardless. Often on the last week before winter break we would have an assembly about the "true meaning of Christmas", which was usually met with a collective groan. I remember one assembly where a Christian youth club came in to talk to us. They showed us a picture of a cartoon living room decorated for Christmas and we had to name what was missing. People yelled out suggestions for better presents, and one person pointed out that fire safety was missing because the stockings were too close to the blazing fire. Predictably, the answer they were looking for was Jesus.

After the assembly came to a close, the youth club handed out Bibles to everyone. Sure, you could refuse, but that would hold up the line and no one wanted to be that person. Even the Muslim students took one. Later on that week we had to have another school conversation because some of the students from my school had publicly destroyed their Bibles, which upset the locals.

I have three Bibles that were given to me by my schools, and I'm an atheist. My parents had to meet certain requirements in order to qualify for a place at my primary school. It apparently had a good reputation, but fell under new management when I was there. Unfortunately, that's when things went downhill really fast.

The requirements were that parents must attend at least two weeks of church attendance, and the child needs to be Christened. Of course, living in the area helps. I was actually Christened at the church that is a part of the primary school. My parents aren't religious, the only reason they went out of their way to meet those requirements was due to the school having such a wonderful reputation. Now my mum sometimes cries because she wishes she knew the full extent of what happened in that place, and she's sorry she didn't take me out of that school and file a report against them. I'm in University now. My parents still feel bad. I keep telling them it's fine. Hopefully the management is much better these days, for the sake of the kids.

Apologies for going off the main topic somewhat.


Wow! That’s pretty invasive! These sorts of people seem to think that they are justified because they are “right.”

It reminds me of an experience that wasn’t nearly as bad: I was going to a public college, and one of my professors was passing out Bibles on campus (actually asked students individually if they wanted one). It pissed off the other professors because the students who didn’t accept Bibles would probably worry that it would be reflected in their grades.

Before engaging in religious activities, educators need to think about how it could potentially affect their students. After all, their primary responsibility is to teach academic subjects.

I’ve known a non religious parent who sent her daughter to a Christian school that accepts nonChristians because it was way better than the larger public school. She regretted it because the daughter felt pressured to convert. If it’s possible, it’s probably better to move in this scenario.



magz
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30 Nov 2019, 11:40 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
How do you know nonChristian (or nonChristmas celebrating Christian children) aren’t uncomfortable during such times in your country? I can assure you that Jehovah’s Witness children are (whether they tell you or not) because they’re much the same everywhere. Certainly, many JW children in the UK are. I’ve talked to some of them.

I know because I have quite a lot of close friends like that.
It's likely that local cultural context is important, as using name "Christmas" for big, family-oriented holidays at the end of December does not come here with any kind of identity declaration. It's just a name for holidays of tradition probably older than christianity here, with strong, pre-christian local roots.
It may be different in the US.

Twilightprincess wrote:
I never told anyone I was uncomfortable (other than talking with other people in my group who felt similarly).

Feeling uncomfortable could affect a child’s learning.

Wow, I could expand this sentence into a lot of aspects of schools, especially in autistic context. I would love more sensory-friendly schools!


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