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ASPartOfMe
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26 Oct 2020, 9:25 am

So in America the rates of hospitalizations and deaths are going down. This is explained by the virus mutating to be less lethal, better treatments, and herd immunity. Yet in Europe the virus has seemingly mutated to be more lethal overcoming better treatments and herd immunity.

All this proves is every prediction is an educated guess, while we know a lot more then we did in March we still don’t know sh**.


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magz
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26 Oct 2020, 9:38 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
So in America the rates of hospitalizations and deaths are going down. This is explained by the virus mutating to be less lethal, better treatments, and herd immunity. Yet in Europe the virus has seemingly mutated to be more lethal overcoming better treatments and herd immunity.

All this proves is every prediction is an educated guess, while we know a lot more then we did in March we still don’t know sh**.

Actually, mortality in Europe is much lower than it used to be in spring - very likely an important factor is knowledge and routines for things like cytokine storm, absent in March but well-established by now.
Lethality of covid has decreased but new cases are only now spiking. Spain as an example:
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26 Oct 2020, 5:50 pm

MOM'S CODE

“Moms are kind of deciding together that, hey, we're not going to have our kids tested for COVID." This is being called Mom's Code. It began spreading a month ago among Utah parent Facebook groups. If your child shows Covid symptoms, keep them home but DO NOT test ... If everyone would follow that the schools could stay open,” reads one of the Facebook posts. Fifteen cases can force a high school to go to remote learning.

“I personal [sic] think getting tested is selfish,” reads another. “Because of the fact that they contact trace everyone so one person leads to 30 people that have to quarantine or worse, programs like athletics etc. are shut down. It’s mass hysteria cause one person came in contact with another person that had the sniffles and ran to get tested! Stop the testing Stop the Contact tracing,” read another post.

Source: Parents' 'Mom Code' keeping Utah students from being tested for coronavirus


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magz
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27 Oct 2020, 2:41 am

jimmy m wrote:
MOM'S CODE

“Moms are kind of deciding together that, hey, we're not going to have our kids tested for COVID." This is being called Mom's Code. It began spreading a month ago among Utah parent Facebook groups. If your child shows Covid symptoms, keep them home but DO NOT test ... If everyone would follow that the schools could stay open,” reads one of the Facebook posts. Fifteen cases can force a high school to go to remote learning.

“I personal [sic] think getting tested is selfish,” reads another. “Because of the fact that they contact trace everyone so one person leads to 30 people that have to quarantine or worse, programs like athletics etc. are shut down. It’s mass hysteria cause one person came in contact with another person that had the sniffles and ran to get tested! Stop the testing Stop the Contact tracing,” read another post.

Source: Parents' 'Mom Code' keeping Utah students from being tested for coronavirus

"Solving" a problem by refusing to see it (in this case literally) :wall:


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ASPartOfMe
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27 Oct 2020, 2:56 am

COVID-19 heart changes raise death risk; virus may be lead killer of young adults during surges

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The following is a roundup of some of the latest scientific studies on the novel coronavirus and efforts to find treatments and vaccines for COVID-19, the illness caused by the virus.

Higher death risk found if COVID-19 causes changes to heart
COVID-19 may be top cause of death among young adults in some U.S. regions
Antibiotic overuse may be rising during pandemic


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27 Oct 2020, 3:30 am

magz wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
MOM'S CODE

“Moms are kind of deciding together that, hey, we're not going to have our kids tested for COVID." ...

"Solving" a problem by refusing to see it (in this case literally) :wall:


No, the problem they are trying to solve is not the virus, but the government interventions that accompany detections of the virus.
Which they have evidently judged to be a bigger hassle than the virus.

That's why you need to bring people onboard, when you treat a health problem as a law enforcement problem, you will get this kind of pushback.



magz
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27 Oct 2020, 4:12 am

SpiceWolf wrote:
magz wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
MOM'S CODE

“Moms are kind of deciding together that, hey, we're not going to have our kids tested for COVID." ...

"Solving" a problem by refusing to see it (in this case literally) :wall:

No, the problem they are trying to solve is not the virus, but the government interventions that accompany detections of the virus.
Which they have evidently judged to be a bigger hassle than the virus.

That's why you need to bring people onboard, when you treat a health problem as a law enforcement problem, you will get this kind of pushback.

Bringing people onboard for reasonable discussion is something I yearn for.
The attitude of "let's defeat our opponents no matter what" is a tragedy of current party systems - any problem that gets politicized, falls out of reasonable discourse.
As a mother of schoolchildren, I understand the urge not to close schools but the attitude this organization presents is backwards - preventing detection instead of preventing spread and negotiating more reasonable school functioning and closure rules won't lead to any constructive solutions.


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jimmy m
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27 Oct 2020, 8:35 am

Another Innovative Face Mask Design

Researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) reportedly submitted a patent for a mask with heated copper mesh. The contraption is said to slow particles down and inactivate viruses in mere seconds by the mesh and temperatures reaching 90°C, or 194°F.

Image

The searing heat reportedly “could achieve between a thousandfold and millionfold reduction in viral particles, depending on the final mask size,” per the release. The prototypes use a 9-volt battery to release an electric current across a 0.1-millimeter thick copper mesh. The result? Medically sterile air on both sides of the mask, researchers say.

Source: Will heated face masks kill coronavirus? Researchers testing prototype, university says

Interesting proposal. I guess I would like to see how they cool down the air before a person breathes it into their lungs.


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jimmy m
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27 Oct 2020, 8:55 am

magz wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
MOM'S CODE

As a mother of schoolchildren, I understand the urge not to close schools but the attitude this organization presents is backwards - preventing detection instead of preventing spread and negotiating more reasonable school functioning and closure rules won't lead to any constructive solutions.


I guess from my perspective this is not an organization but rather a movement. A type of social media movement. I can sort of see where it came from. What does a mom do when her child comes down with the flu virus. Generally she keep the child home for a few days until the child recovers. She doesn't take the child in to be tested for the flu. She just applies a series of remedies to help the child recover. Things like plenty of bed rest, chicken noodle soup, non-prescription drugs from her medicine cabinet, home remedies. She doesn't try to close down the school to stop the spread of the flu. In most cases the child will recover and then return to school. So moms are beginning to treat the coronavirus like they would treat the flu virus. After a few flu seasons, this coronavirus will merge in with the annual flu pandemic (that consist of hundreds of virus and coronavirus threats) that happens every winter.

So it all boils down to do you want to lock down everyone or just target the most vulnerable people. If you put your resources on the individuals that are most likely to die from the coronavirus, then you stand a greater chance of reducing death rates and at the same time minimally affect society at large.


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27 Oct 2020, 9:06 am

The thing is: the reasoning behind the COVID restrictions is the fact that so many people with COVID become hospitalized that it can tax the hospital system of a given area. The percentage of people diagnosed with COVID who are hospitalized is low, but not low enough for there not to be problems.

Idaho, for one, is considering shipping some COVID patients to better-served areas like Seattle, Washington and Portland, Oregon. Utah is talking about doing something similar to what Italy and other locales did early in the Pandemic: picking and choosing who lives, and who dies.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 27 Oct 2020, 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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27 Oct 2020, 9:09 am

jimmy m wrote:
magz wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
MOM'S CODE

As a mother of schoolchildren, I understand the urge not to close schools but the attitude this organization presents is backwards - preventing detection instead of preventing spread and negotiating more reasonable school functioning and closure rules won't lead to any constructive solutions.


I guess from my perspective this is not an organization but rather a movement. A type of social media movement. I can sort of see where it came from. What does a mom do when her child comes down with the flu virus. Generally she keep the child home for a few days until the child recovers. She doesn't take the child in to be tested for the flu. She just applies a series of remedies to help the child recover. Things like plenty of bed rest, chicken noodle soup, non-prescription drugs from her medicine cabinet, home remedies. She doesn't try to close down the school to stop the spread of the flu. In most cases the child will recover and then return to school. So moms are beginning to treat the coronavirus like they would treat the flu virus. After a few flu seasons, this coronavirus will merge in with the annual flu pandemic (that consist of hundreds of virus and coronavirus threats) that happens every winter.

So it all boils down to do you want to lock down everyone or just target the most vulnerable people. If you put your resources on the individuals that are most likely to die from the coronavirus, then you stand a greater chance of reducing death rates and at the same time minimally affect society at large.

There is more than reducing death rate into it.
Right now, my country is experiencing healthcare system overload. Most of these patients will ultimately recover but for now, there are too little healthy doctors to treat them. And this situation is lethal to some non-covid patients.

I don't know the reality of schools in question. Here, it's normal that you put information about flu, chicken pox, lice and any other infectious diseases on the class mailing list, so other parents know. Covid is not an exception. Also, a couple of cases does not result in closing a school - but high covid presence in the general population resulted in temporary remote teaching for high schools and later for children from grade 4 (10yo) up in the whole country.


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27 Oct 2020, 9:19 am

Most people----even old people, even people with pre-existing conditions----get a relatively mild form of COVID.

But----ENOUGH people get the more serious forms of COVID that we have to put a handle on it. We have to do much more than what is done with the Flu. Otherwise, like Magz was saying, people will be left to die of other conditions (and of COVID) because of the sheer number of COVID hospitalizations.

Moreover, COVID is year-found; whereas the Flu is seasonal.

It's possible that COVID will become "just another virus"----but it's not "just another virus" right now.



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27 Oct 2020, 9:25 am

We have to take Politics out of this Public Health situation.

Did people "play politics" during the Spanish Flu? During polio epidemics? No. People acted together to get rid of public health menaces.

How long did it take to distribute the Sabin oral polio vaccine to the population of the United States, then the world population, when it was developed in 1962?



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27 Oct 2020, 11:35 am

I saw a silly movie once called Surrogates where everyone had a robot version of themselves out in the world operated by them while they stayed safe at home.


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27 Oct 2020, 11:52 am

UK study finds evidence of waning antibody immunity to COVID-19 over time

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Antibodies against the novel coronavirus declined rapidly in the British population during the summer, a study found on Tuesday, suggesting protection after infection may not be long lasting and raising the prospect of waning immunity in the community.

Their study found that antibody prevalence fell by a quarter, from 6% of the population around the end of June to just 4.4% in September. That raises the prospect of decreasing population immunity ahead of a second wave of infections in recent weeks that has forced local lockdowns and restrictions.

Those for whom COVID-19 was confirmed with a gold standard PCR test had a less pronounced decline in antibodies, compared to people who had been asymptomatic and unaware of their original infection.

There was no change in the levels of antibodies seen in healthcare workers, possibly due to repeated exposure to the virus.

The study backs up findings from similar surveys in Germany which found the vast majority of people didn’t have COVID-19 antibodies, even in hotspots for the disease, and that antibodies might fade in those who do.

World Health Organisation spokesman Tarik Jasarevic said that uncertainty over how long immunity would last and the fact most people had never had antibodies against the coronavirus in the first place showed the need to break transmission chains.

“Acquiring this collective immunity just by letting virus run through the population is not really an option,” he told a U.N. briefing in Geneva

Imperial’s study, based on a survey of 365,000 randomly selected adults, was released as a pre-print paper, and has not yet been peer-reviewed.


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28 Oct 2020, 5:22 am

magz wrote:
Bringing people onboard for reasonable discussion is something I yearn for.
The attitude of "let's defeat our opponents no matter what" is a tragedy of current party systems - any problem that gets politicized, falls out of reasonable discourse.


Me too.
Unfortunately where I live it seems like one side thinks it's the new black death and any sacrifice is acceptable.
(Especially when they are not the ones paying the price).

And like the other side thinks it's a hoax and any imposition is too much.
(Especially when the demographics say they are personally very unlikely to die from the virus).

And the media are on the sidelines eagerly fanning the flames of apocalypse for "clicks and views".