Dylann Roof's lawyers appeal death sentence citing autism

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ASPartOfMe
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05 Feb 2020, 4:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
What autistic symptoms , in a person of average intelligence or above, would lead to diminished ability to know right from wrong?


Have a read of this paper which reviews the risk that a high functioning autistic person (so one prerequisite is normal intelligence as defined by IQ) impacts on their risk of formulating criminal intent.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392381/
Analysis yielded three major themes on how an hfASD diagnosis affects an offender’s ability to regulate actions and criminal behaviour. Interviewed judges reported beliefs that hfASD offenders view the world in a different way and that much of their behaviour is not under their direct control. Judges reported these perceptions likely affect how they criminally process and make legal decisions regarding offenders with hfASDs.

Quote:
The sample size was small and therefore no statistical significance can be drawn from results; findings cannot be applied to perceptions or experiences of the entire California Superior Court Judge population.


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cyberdad
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05 Feb 2020, 5:06 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
What autistic symptoms , in a person of average intelligence or above, would lead to diminished ability to know right from wrong?


Have a read of this paper which reviews the risk that a high functioning autistic person (so one prerequisite is normal intelligence as defined by IQ) impacts on their risk of formulating criminal intent.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392381/
Analysis yielded three major themes on how an hfASD diagnosis affects an offender’s ability to regulate actions and criminal behaviour. Interviewed judges reported beliefs that hfASD offenders view the world in a different way and that much of their behaviour is not under their direct control. Judges reported these perceptions likely affect how they criminally process and make legal decisions regarding offenders with hfASDs.

Quote:
The sample size was small and therefore no statistical significance can be drawn from results; findings cannot be applied to perceptions or experiences of the entire California Superior Court Judge population.


Agreed, but there is actually a deficit of research on the subject



Kraichgauer
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05 Feb 2020, 6:08 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
What autistic symptoms , in a person of average intelligence or above, would lead to diminished ability to know right from wrong?

This site is called "WRONG PLANET", because autistic people are perceived to behave WRONG.


No, it's named for the phrase coined by Temple Grandin, describing how people with autism see themselves as aliens having landed on a planet which makes no sense to them. In other words, it's our perception of the NT world.

The other way makes more sense.

That way makes autistic people judgmental and seeking conformity.


Fitting in might be distasteful, but in order to function if not survive in the NT world, it helps to learn their alien ways.


How dare you insinuate I'm alien :lol:


Sorry. :lol:


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cyberdad
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06 Feb 2020, 12:50 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
What autistic symptoms , in a person of average intelligence or above, would lead to diminished ability to know right from wrong?

This site is called "WRONG PLANET", because autistic people are perceived to behave WRONG.


No, it's named for the phrase coined by Temple Grandin, describing how people with autism see themselves as aliens having landed on a planet which makes no sense to them. In other words, it's our perception of the NT world.

The other way makes more sense.

That way makes autistic people judgmental and seeking conformity.


Fitting in might be distasteful, but in order to function if not survive in the NT world, it helps to learn their alien ways.


How dare you insinuate I'm alien :lol:


Sorry. :lol:


You know when I first joined WP I subconsciously chose Whitley Streiber's alien grey as an avatar. The irony never dawned on me till many years later



Kraichgauer
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06 Feb 2020, 1:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
What autistic symptoms , in a person of average intelligence or above, would lead to diminished ability to know right from wrong?

This site is called "WRONG PLANET", because autistic people are perceived to behave WRONG.


No, it's named for the phrase coined by Temple Grandin, describing how people with autism see themselves as aliens having landed on a planet which makes no sense to them. In other words, it's our perception of the NT world.

The other way makes more sense.

That way makes autistic people judgmental and seeking conformity.


Fitting in might be distasteful, but in order to function if not survive in the NT world, it helps to learn their alien ways.


How dare you insinuate I'm alien :lol:


Sorry. :lol:


You know when I first joined WP I subconsciously chose Whitley Streiber's alien grey as an avatar. The irony never dawned on me till many years later


COOL! :thumleft:


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ASPartOfMe
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29 Jan 2021, 9:16 pm

ASAN Submits Brief Opposing Autism-Related Arguments of Charleston Shooter’s Defense Team

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On June 17, 2015, a man opened fire on a Black church in Charleston, South Carolina and killed nine people, committing one of the deadliest acts of racist violence in recent history. The Autistic Self Advocacy Network (ASAN) and the Autistic Women’s and Nonbinary Network (AWNN) have submitted a legal brief addressing arguments by the shooter’s defense team that associate autism with violence and suggest that autistic people cannot make decisions. The defense team has taken the position that he is autistic. ASAN and AWN’s brief educates the court about the impact that these arguments may have on the larger autistic community. ASAN and AWN advocate for greater rights for autistic defendants as a whole, but believe that tying autism to mass violence, and claiming that autistic people necessarily cannot make important trial decisions, is harmful to the autistic community overall, including other autistic defendants awaiting trial.

The shooter was convicted of federal hate crimes in 2016. Although his defense team urged him to present evidence that he was autistic, the shooter – who did not identify as autistic – rejected that suggestion and represented himself for part of the proceedings. He is now appealing his death sentence.

ASAN has always opposed attempts to connect autism and mental health disabilities with serious violence. Our legal brief discusses research showing that there is no link between premeditated violence and autism. Arguments linking autism and violence do great harm to our community, as they can influence public opinion and lead to legislation imposing excessive surveillance, isolation, and segregation on people with disabilities, especially Black, Indigenous, and other people of color with disabilities.

ASAN also weighed in on the argument made by the shooter’s defense team that he was incompetent to stand trial because he was autistic, among other reasons. The defense team said that in part because he had low scores on tests of social interaction skills, interpreting perspectives, and integrating new information – tests which many autistic people perform poorly on – he was either incompetent to stand trial or to make decisions about his trial. ASAN does not believe that people with disabilities should stand trial without effective supports that enable us to understand the proceedings, make informed decisions, and communicate with counsel. We have advocated for autistic people who didn’t get the right supports before or during trial. However, the mere existence of a disability does not mean that we cannot make decisions. That kind of rule would be dangerous for people with disabilities. People with disabilities often have our right to make decisions taken away from us. Moreover, people with disabilities who are deemed incompetent to stand trial are often institutionalized for longer than their sentence would have been. ASAN is concerned that, if someone with autistic traits is automatically considered incompetent to stand trial instead of being given adequate supports, this would cause harm to many other autistic people navigating the criminal legal system.

ASAN believes that the criminal legal system needs major changes, and that autistic people routinely have our rights denied to us in court. ASAN also will always and continually oppose the stigmatization of autistic people as violent and support our right to make choices. We wholeheartedly condemn all acts of racist violence and terror. For more information on these issues please contact Sam Crane, our Legal Director, at [email protected].


Full Brief


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29 Jan 2021, 10:31 pm

How exactly does the American legal system work with in applying the concept of "diminished responsibility" based on psychiatric reports?

Does it vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction? differs based on state law?

I notice Dylan Roof doesn't want to admit he's autistic even though his lawyers are using this as a reason to avoid the death penalty. Does that make a difference?

In terms of DUI laws it appears some judges throw the book at people who cause death while drink driving earning up to 20 years in prison and other judges believe psychiatric reports.

Case in point is Ethan Couch who killed 4 people while drink driving but avoided jail because the judge believe the psychiatrist who made up the term "affluenza" afflicting rich people's kids. Affluenza was cited successfully as a reason for diminished responsibility for the deaths of Couch's 4 victims.



kraftiekortie
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29 Jan 2021, 10:37 pm

Lawyers will do anything, including unethical and absurd things, to help their clients.

Case in point. Rudy Giuliani vis a vis Donald Trump.



naturalplastic
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31 Jan 2021, 8:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
How exactly does the American legal system work with in applying the concept of "diminished responsibility" based on psychiatric reports?

Does it vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction? differs based on state law?

I notice Dylan Roof doesn't want to admit he's autistic even though his lawyers are using this as a reason to avoid the death penalty. Does that make a difference?

.

It seems as if none of these mass murderers ever want to admit to having psychiatric disorders even to save their own lives. Ted Kazinski (Unabomber) refused to let his lawyers label him as "insane" even though they did so to avoid him getting the death penalty.



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31 Jan 2021, 8:06 am

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
How exactly does the American legal system work with in applying the concept of "diminished responsibility" based on psychiatric reports?

Does it vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction? differs based on state law?

I notice Dylan Roof doesn't want to admit he's autistic even though his lawyers are using this as a reason to avoid the death penalty. Does that make a difference?

.

It seems as if none of these mass murderers ever want to admit to having psychiatric disorders even to save their own lives. Ted Kazinski (Unabomber) refused to let his lawyers label him as "insane" even though they did so to avoid him getting the death penalty.


I'm not usually one for the death penalty, but in this case let him deny he's on the spectrum, and let him fry! That way we can deny he was ever on the spectrum with the rest of us.


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31 Jan 2021, 8:15 am

Gosh.

It is interesting to read one's own posts from only a year ago- in this necro'd thread.

My basic attitude about it is the same: that an "autism defense" hurts autistic people more than it protects them. So it should only be used sparingly.

But I am not as worked up about it now as then. I can see how almost anything - if its part of some matrix of childhood trauma- could justifiably be used as a mitigating circumstance. Your race, creed, religion, etc- if your community abused for a being of that group- might cause you to loose it and get homocidal. Anything that could lead to suicide could also lead to homicide (if you're driven to off yourself- whats to stop you from killing others?).

And if the law allows a "twinkie defense", and if even prosperity (the beforementioned "affluenza kid") can be cited as "trauma" in your defense then ...yeah...why not autism? :lol:



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31 Jan 2021, 8:19 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
How exactly does the American legal system work with in applying the concept of "diminished responsibility" based on psychiatric reports?

Does it vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction? differs based on state law?

I notice Dylan Roof doesn't want to admit he's autistic even though his lawyers are using this as a reason to avoid the death penalty. Does that make a difference?

.

It seems as if none of these mass murderers ever want to admit to having psychiatric disorders even to save their own lives. Ted Kazinski (Unabomber) refused to let his lawyers label him as "insane" even though they did so to avoid him getting the death penalty.


I'm not usually one for the death penalty, but in this case let him deny he's on the spectrum, and let him fry! That way we can deny he was ever on the spectrum with the rest of us.


That. And if these guys really believe that they were killing for a holy cause then let them die for it!



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31 Jan 2021, 5:53 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
How exactly does the American legal system work with in applying the concept of "diminished responsibility" based on psychiatric reports?

Does it vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction? differs based on state law?

I notice Dylan Roof doesn't want to admit he's autistic even though his lawyers are using this as a reason to avoid the death penalty. Does that make a difference?

.

It seems as if none of these mass murderers ever want to admit to having psychiatric disorders even to save their own lives. Ted Kazinski (Unabomber) refused to let his lawyers label him as "insane" even though they did so to avoid him getting the death penalty.


I'm not usually one for the death penalty, but in this case let him deny he's on the spectrum, and let him fry! That way we can deny he was ever on the spectrum with the rest of us.


That. And if these guys really believe that they were killing for a holy cause then let them die for it!


Indeed! Let all race warriors lay down their lives.


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25 Sep 2021, 8:49 am

Appeals court declines to take up Dylann Roof's death sentence challenge

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A federal appeals court has declined to take up Dylann Roof’s challenge to a three-judge panel’s decision to uphold his conviction and death sentence in the 2015 killings of nine Black churchgoers in Charleston, S.C.

A three-judge panel of the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals filed a one-page order Friday declining Roof’s petition for a panel rehearing after his legal team argued earlier this month that the matter should go before the full appeals court.

Roof’s attorneys had argued that they believe their client’s death sentence was issued in part due to prosecutors' efforts to portray the victims in a positive light, which the Supreme Court has previously said is only permitted in certain circumstances.

The lawyers wrote in their court filing, "The Panel’s decision conflicts with this precedent, opening the door to death sentences based on victims’ goodness and worth.”

"Especially troubling, it sanctions reliance on victims’ religiosity as evidence of that heightened worth,” they added at the time.

The challenge came after a three-judge panel of the same federal appeals court unanimously ruled late last month to uphold the death sentence, writing in a 149-page decision that Roof’s “crimes qualify him for the harshest penalty that a just society can impose.”

“We have reached that conclusion not as a product of emotion but through a thorough analytical process, which we have endeavored to detail here,” they added.


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cyberdad
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25 Sep 2021, 10:46 pm

Wait, Roof is still alive??



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25 Sep 2021, 11:13 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Wait, Roof is still alive??


Death penalty takes forever in this country, I think the average is something like 12 years, there are tons of automatic appeals and reviews even if the condemned doesn't fight them, it's supposed to be a safeguard against wrongful executions. I'd rather we not have capital punishment at all, but if we must, I'm glad the process is slow, you can't exactly un-execute someone if a mistake was made.


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