Spain is to roll out a universal basic income (UBI)

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goldfish21
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21 Apr 2020, 10:21 am

magz wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
As someone else posted about African countries, the only studies I’m aware of are short term/cut short.

For a true idea how people function when they get money for nothing long term we’ll have to turn to the trump & Hilton family class and ask them. They have generations who’ve simply been given inheritances or allowances for no exchange of labour. I bet they think it’s great for them but a non-starter for you.

Do you wish there to be more like them?


In terms of having stability, shelter, food, medicine, and the ability to pursue education or other passions? Yes.

To be completely spoiled by being given hundreds of millions of dollars and never having to work hard for anything? No.

That’s why UBI proposals focus on amounts that provide BASIC incomes, not lives of luxury or opulence.


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magz
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21 Apr 2020, 10:38 am

Living in an ex-2nd world, largely socialist state, I can see:
- Access to healthcare and education for everyone, while it always has some issues, is definitely better than lack of it;
- Giving out "basic" amounts of money by the state encourages emergence of a new social class - professional welfare beneficients. Not paying rent and ruining their apartaments but they can't be exmited because of laws protecting them from homelessness. While not spoiled by their billions, they remain quite spoiled by cheap booze. Of course not everyone goes that route - but enough to be a problem in need of active adressing.


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goldfish21
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21 Apr 2020, 11:40 am

magz wrote:
Living in an ex-2nd world, largely socialist state, I can see:
- Access to healthcare and education for everyone, while it always has some issues, is definitely better than lack of it;
- Giving out "basic" amounts of money by the state encourages emergence of a new social class - professional welfare beneficients. Not paying rent and ruining their apartaments but they can't be exmited because of laws protecting them from homelessness. While not spoiled by their billions, they remain quite spoiled by cheap booze. Of course not everyone goes that route - but enough to be a problem in need of active adressing.


That may creep up to become a bigger problem here than it is now, but I’d take it if it meant way more people were shelter, food, and medicine secure and could pursue higher education with their paycheques instead of working two jobs just to make rent.

Pros/cons.

Besides, we Do already have the option of dropping out of life and drawing a welfare income and living a very low quality of life existence if we don’t want to work. In some ways it’s fortunate that welfare rates have remained so low as housing prices have skyrocketed so there isn’t really an incentive for anyone to be on welfare if they can work.

Maximum welfare rate for a single person in British Columbia is $760/month. This is not enough money to rent a 1 bedroom basement suite in a house almost anywhere within 100kms of Vancouver. Average rent price for a 1 bedroom apartment IN the city of Vancouver right now is $2,208.

There ARE plenty of singles, couples, and families who do exist on welfare, but the rates they pay don’t exactly encourage people to want to be on it if they can work.

UBI might encourage a few more people to be lazy or become addicts, but IMO it would simply relieve a lot of stress from most people who are just trying to make it month to month And open up all kinds of opportunities for people to pursue higher educations and different career paths that would be much better for them And our economy. Everything from people studying for professional jobs or healthcare roles to artists creating art and even people being able to afford to switch careers and pursue a construction trade apprenticeship. Hard to better yourself becoming a plumber that makes $75k/year + overtime & benefits if you currently make $50k and need every penny to pay rent and monthly bills and can’t afford to drop down to $35k as a new apprentice.

IMO UBI would solve a lot more problems than it creates. Plus there would be more people with free time and mental energy to work on solving both old problems and new ones. 8)


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