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Tw1ggy
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11 Apr 2020, 6:47 pm

I no longer like Gone With the Wind because it's a very racist movie. Plus it represents everything I hate about the mentality of the south and how the rest of the country views the south. :|



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11 Apr 2020, 10:36 pm

I agree. May I suggest Free State Of Jones?


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Tw1ggy
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11 Apr 2020, 10:40 pm

I'm not into war movies if they show soldiers killing each other. In GWtW Scarlett only killed one soldier and it was in self defense.



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11 Apr 2020, 10:57 pm

True. It's beautifully made (costumes, music, acting, etc) though. To be honest, even if it wasn't totally intended to show her in a flattering light,
Mammy, Scarlett's maid who is like her mother more than her actual mother, is the most likeable character.

More intelligent, alert and involved than Scarlett's actual parents--
but her caring and loving heart makes her susceptible to manipulation ----even though she knows it deep down.
Which is the case in real life with such devoted people (like my grandmother and my son's best nurse Irene).

Scarlett is basically a sociopath and villain that we are meant to sympathize with.

Prettiness and excellent, thoughtful acting by Vivien Leigh,
+ production does a lot to make such a disgusting character likeable.


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Tw1ggy
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11 Apr 2020, 11:25 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
True. It's beautifully made (costumes, music, acting, etc) though. To be honest, even if it wasn't totally intended to show her in a flattering light,
Mammy, Scarlett's maid who is like her mother more than her actual mother, is the most likeable character.

More intelligent, alert and involved than Scarlett's actual parents--
but her caring and loving heart makes her susceptible to manipulation ----even though she knows it deep down.
Which is the case in real life with such devoted people (like my grandmother and my son's best nurse Irene).

Scarlett is basically a sociopath and villain that we are meant to sympathize with.

Prettiness and excellent, thoughtful acting by Vivien Leigh,
+ production does a lot to make such a disgusting character likeable.

I guess there was a kind of realism in Mammie and Scarlett's relationship because in the days of slavery a lot of black slave women served as nannies to the children of white slave owners and I can imagine they did develop a motherly attachment to them despite the unfair circumstances they were in.



Tw1ggy
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11 Apr 2020, 11:29 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
+ production does a lot to make such a disgusting character likeable.

Kinda like Sweney Todd and Mrs. Lovett in The Demon Barber of Fleet Street? :heart:



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11 Apr 2020, 11:50 pm

Tw1ggy wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
True. It's beautifully made (costumes, music, acting, etc) though. To be honest, even if it wasn't totally intended to show her in a flattering light,
Mammy, Scarlett's maid who is like her mother more than her actual mother, is the most likeable character.

More intelligent, alert and involved than Scarlett's actual parents--
but her caring and loving heart makes her susceptible to manipulation ----even though she knows it deep down.
Which is the case in real life with such devoted people (like my grandmother and my son's best nurse Irene).

Scarlett is basically a sociopath and villain that we are meant to sympathize with.

Prettiness and excellent, thoughtful acting by Vivien Leigh,
+ production does a lot to make such a disgusting character likeable.

I guess there was a kind of realism in Mammie and Scarlett's relationship because in the days of slavery a lot of black slave women served as nannies to the children of white slave owners and I can imagine they did develop a motherly attachment to them despite the unfair circumstances they were in.


well to her it was like duty too but a conscious friendship turning into family. (mammie/scarlett's mom before scarlett was born). from what the book showed.

mammie was too intelligent/honourable to be beaten down..
that was her family by choice (in her heart) in my opinion.

that's how intelligent but pure-hearted and honourable people are.

it's like Nurse Irene treated us, and went above and beyond in her caring.
Nobody can break that bond when an intelligent and noble person like her chooses to form it.

I was sad that Scarlett mistreated Mammy a lot and her parents just let it happen.
Their attempts at teaching her morals/manners, were just lazy and 'token parenting'.
Any good in her character came from Mammy and from admiring her mother from a respectful distance.

In my opinion (in the book,the movie doesn't show it) the mother was a neglectful, lazy, aloof mother who did not deserve that pedestal and was to blame for Scarlett's faults.

But Mammy did her best to compensate.

In a different era, Mammy would be great in any field she chose to go into.


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11 Apr 2020, 11:59 pm

Sorry for derailing the point of the thread.
I am in awe of real people like Mammy so I find the character fascinating.


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Tw1ggy
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12 Apr 2020, 12:11 am

blooiejagwa wrote:
Sorry for derailing the point of the thread.
I am in awe of real people like Mammy so I find the character fascinating.

I don't think you derailed it at all. You brought up an interesting point. :)



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12 Apr 2020, 9:02 pm

I really GwtW - yes, it's awful and racist, but it's such a good film!

I should mention that I live in Europe, and GwtW could be set in a fictional Universe with Dragons for all I know. I understand that it's not, but I don't know any person that can relate to anything in the movie, so for me it appears as a fairytale, in which the premise is that there's real differences between races etc.
Like the Lion king, where it's okay for the lions to eat the other animsls, because in that fictiinsl universe, murderous monarchy is fine.


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Tw1ggy
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12 Apr 2020, 9:12 pm

I dunno, the fact that so many people to this day love a movie that glorifies white people's enslavement of black people makes me feel like there is something seriously wrong with our society. If I myself was black I feel like I would be even more bothered by this movie. :|



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13 Apr 2020, 12:14 pm

The point of the movie isn't the glorification of slavery. It's a sweeping historical epic that depicts the effects of war on the women at home. If you can't stand movies that show eras of history that included slavery, then you can't watch anything about ancient Rome, classical Greece, or the Bible.



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13 Apr 2020, 2:49 pm

arielhawksquill wrote:
The point of the movie isn't the glorification of slavery. It's a sweeping historical epic that depicts the effects of war on the women at home. If you can't stand movies that show eras of history that included slavery, then you can't watch anything about ancient Rome, classical Greece, or the Bible.

It was a pretty unrealistic portrayel of slavery depicting them as happy to serve their masters and completely ignoring all the bad things that went along with it like the bullwhipping and the lynchings.



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13 Apr 2020, 5:57 pm

I dont think so.. Tell u why.. It was only describing things from Scarlett's POV and a time of upheaval. Scarlett, though a hardcore sociopath, was the main focus and if anybody else including the slaves was involved it was only how she related to them or the role they had to HER.
Even so we get glimpses of nastiness.
They clearly showed Scarlett screaming at the younger girl and being complete opposite of Melanie for example.

Just bcuz her dad and mom were good and decent people towards them doesnt mean their daughter was the same.

Her family treated them like servants and not badly. They are at the level of family and stay by Scarlett's and her family's side mainly because of the relation to the parents who they respected. Like honouring them bcux of the dad mainly. And compassion
I think this is shown pretty clearly. The male slave (sorry ita been a while and I only remember a few of the main characters' names) didnt have to help the girls during upheaval but he still did.
It wasnt from slave mentality but his inner goodness and kindness all he did.

That is shown clearly in my opinion.

I'm sure it fits the characters of the dad as he was depicted in the book, to be like that, and No doubt people like that existed.

What sucks is people with vested interests/preconceptions, who use it more like a documentary-- than a fictional slice of ONE non slave woman's life-- to romanticize aspects of life back then

It is almost entirely about one woman and all she inflicts upon others (including mammy anf the other girl--they show her superiority complex and petty meanness towards them) and all she goes through as well...

with little to do about slavery. (A romance just like any trashy romance novel)


Also it was not within Margaret Mitchell's capabalities as a writer to balance both romantic interpersonal issues as well as broader social climate/history. She just was not a good writer to attempt that except as a backdrop. Perhaps she was just like Scarlett in how she saw things.

If it was for example Dickens' level of wriring for this era ..

then there could be a balance of both done well with a focus on slavery not Specifically Scarlett, it wd be totally different in tone as They wd show other families and upbringing etc.


Dickens could handle such subjects better with nuance... but the complexity of his style isnt ideal for 'the most popular movie ' as ppl like something easy


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Tw1ggy
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13 Apr 2020, 6:32 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:

What sucks is people with vested interests/preconceptions, who use it more like a documentary-- than a fictional slice of ONE non slave woman's life-- to romanticize aspects of life back then
.

Exactly my point. Such a horrible past should not have been romantacized. I mean would anybody dare to try and romantacize Nazi Germany? This kind of movie has not only caused southerners to hold onto a racist past, but one that frankly was exaggerated by Hollywood and did not actually exist for most people living in the Antebellum South.

I speak as somebody who lives in Georgia and is tired of the racist mentality of the south that has been influenced heavily by movies like this one. What we call "Southern Pride" is really just living in a fantasy world of denial that the civil war was mostly our own fault and that we were in the wrong for enslaving human beings and the Jim Crow laws.



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13 Apr 2020, 6:35 pm

I see what u mean.. My sister studied this stuff in depth so I guess her opinion would hold some value here.. but Im sure she wd agree


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