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Karamazov
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18 Apr 2020, 11:08 am

interesting

Any concern about President Xi’s amassing of personal power beyond that held by any premier since Mao?



shlaifu
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18 Apr 2020, 12:04 pm

Karamazov wrote:
interesting

Any concern about President Xi’s amassing of personal power beyond that held by any premier since Mao?


I was being facetious. I do look upon Xi's practices with worry, not the least because I wish all the best to the Chinese people.
That said, the last 30 years have seen the most amazing project of getting out of poverty the world has ever seen, and you have to respect that.

I'm much more worried however by the demise of the US, who, in the same period, have lost the competence to lead, have developed lebels of inequality and dissatisfaction not seen since pre-ww2 Europe, but still have the military might to lash out.

Envirozentiel described the Ccp as the enemy number one of the free world - personally, I think the so-called free world failed to use its freedom responsibly, and has become its own worst enemy. The Ccp is trying to secure its perimeters, but wake me when they install nuclear warheads in my area, next to the American ones, meant to threaten an enemy that collapsed 30 years ago - but the warheads are still there...


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envirozentinel
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18 Apr 2020, 12:13 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
interesting

Any concern about President Xi’s amassing of personal power beyond that held by any premier since Mao?




Envirozentiel described the Ccp as the enemy number one of the free world - personally, I think the so-called free world failed to use its freedom responsibly, and has become its own worst enemy. The Ccp is trying to secure its perimeters, but wake me when they install nuclear warheads in my area, next to the American ones, meant to threaten an enemy that collapsed 30 years ago - but the warheads are still there...



Nope, it wasn't me that said so. :?


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shlaifu
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18 Apr 2020, 12:59 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
interesting

Any concern about President Xi’s amassing of personal power beyond that held by any premier since Mao?




Envirozentiel described the Ccp as the enemy number one of the free world - personally, I think the so-called free world failed to use its freedom responsibly, and has become its own worst enemy. The Ccp is trying to secure its perimeters, but wake me when they install nuclear warheads in my area, next to the American ones, meant to threaten an enemy that collapsed 30 years ago - but the warheads are still there...



Nope, it wasn't me that said so. :?


Oh, right. Sorry. Pepe said it.


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Kraichgauer
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18 Apr 2020, 7:25 pm

Karamazov wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I'm all for useful unorthodoxy.

There's some good in everybody - even if hard to find. 8)


Well, he is giving the elites of all the other developed democracies around the world a foretaste of a future within which the US cannot be relied upon to play the role of global umpire.
This may be very good for the rest of us in the long term. :shrug:


I know I'm opening up a whole can of worms here that I should, through experience, know better to avoid, but here goes: Trump, making America invalid in the world, is carrying out the machinations of that shirtless Bond villain in the Kremlin.


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Pepe
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18 Apr 2020, 9:56 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Pepe wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Pepe wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
It doesn't matter to him who the enemy is, as long as there is one that can be conjured up at short notice:


Image


Sadly, Trump is right, in regard to the ccp.
The ccp is and has been, the enemy of the free world, for quite some time.

It is an irresponsible, totalitarian government, hell-bent on world domination through economics, intimidation, I.P. theft, and outright blackmail.

BTW,
What was the motivation of your posting?
The W.H.O. scandal?


And Trump is the leader of what Noam Chomsky describes as the most dangerous organization in the history of mankind, hell-bent on destroying the possibility of any form of human civilization.
Makes "world domination" sound like a humanist endeavour.


I lurve hyperbole. :mrgreen:

Look on the bright side,
Even If Trump gets re-elected,
That will be his last stint.
Even Trump can destroy the world in 8 years. 8O

On the other hand,
The ccp dictator could have decades to expand his "empire".

I know which one is the bigger threat.

BTW,
Am I reading you right?
Are you saying you support what the ccp is doing?


当然


Pinko alert! 8O :mrgreen:


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Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


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Pepe
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18 Apr 2020, 10:10 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
interesting

Any concern about President Xi’s amassing of personal power beyond that held by any premier since Mao?


I was being facetious. I do look upon Xi's practices with worry, not the least because I wish all the best to the Chinese people.
That said, the last 30 years have seen the most amazing project of getting out of poverty the world has ever seen, and you have to respect that.

I'm much more worried however by the demise of the US, who, in the same period, have lost the competence to lead, have developed lebels of inequality and dissatisfaction not seen since pre-ww2 Europe, but still have the military might to lash out.


But not under Trump, based on his actions.

I see Trump as a businessman running America.
He is cutting the costs by reducing America's global interference/policing.
He wants Nato nations to contribute their fair share.
He is counteracting the parasitical nature of the ccp.
He is addressing the monetary manipulation by the ccp.
He is getting better trade deals.
He is putting pressure on the ccp in regard to hacking and I.P. theft.
He is making it more attractive for manufacturing to come back from china and to develop in America, through favourable tax cuts.

Trump may be a lot of other things, but he is *not* a warmonger.
Trump is focused on making America an economic powerhouse.
"How dare he." :P


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


!


Pepe
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18 Apr 2020, 10:15 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
interesting

Any concern about President Xi’s amassing of personal power beyond that held by any premier since Mao?




Envirozentiel described the Ccp as the enemy number one of the free world - personally, I think the so-called free world failed to use its freedom responsibly, and has become its own worst enemy. The Ccp is trying to secure its perimeters, but wake me when they install nuclear warheads in my area, next to the American ones, meant to threaten an enemy that collapsed 30 years ago - but the warheads are still there...



Nope, it wasn't me that said so. :?


shlaifu needs glasses.
He can't tell the difference between a skunk and a squirrel. :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


!


Pepe
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18 Apr 2020, 10:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I know I'm opening up a whole can of worms here that I should, through experience, know better to avoid, but here goes: Trump, making America invalid in the world, is carrying out the machinations of that shirtless Bond villain in the Kremlin.


Image :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


!


aghogday
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18 Apr 2020, 11:40 pm

Trump Is the King of "Men" With "Little Man Syndrome."
And Also of those Who Bend to Kiss "President God's"
'Small Ring' or at least that's How Matt Gaetz, Holy CRaP, The
US Representative in the House From Where i Live at, 'Grammars'
Trump in Twitter Minion Breaths On 'High' of Falling in-Line With Lies.

"The United States has tested more than anyone in the world by far.
@realDonaldTrump is the greatest testing President God has ever created."

The United States is About 40th Per-Per Capita In Testing For Covid-19
As Trump Eggs On Armed Protests to 'Open-Back-Up' With Egg on His Face
of Ignorance that Kills.

"Ignorance Kills"...
Trump's "Smoky And
the Bandit" 'Call Name' Now

The Only Way To Safely Open Back Up For Covid-19 Is Get that Testing
Per-Capita Poorer Rating Up. Trump will Easily 'Give Up Lives on 5th Avenue'
And the 'Minions' He Kills Will Kiss His 'Small Ring' 'til their Dying Day the Refrain is
Clear; The Refrain is Always Clear; Ignorance Literally Kills Folks And So Much More Butt
Guess
What
Nature
is in Charge
As Always As
The Gulf Waters
Where i Live Heat UP
to 86 Degrees F in Mid April;
Next up in the Bull-Pen of Nature Winds of Fury
to Add a Little Space to Crowds On Jacksonville Beach
Bringing Back Death to Their Family in eventual Tears.
It's Common Sense And Simple Math; 'Plagues/Nature' don't Play With Ignorance that Kills.


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shlaifu
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19 Apr 2020, 9:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I'm all for useful unorthodoxy.

There's some good in everybody - even if hard to find. 8)


Well, he is giving the elites of all the other developed democracies around the world a foretaste of a future within which the US cannot be relied upon to play the role of global umpire.
This may be very good for the rest of us in the long term. :shrug:


I know I'm opening up a whole can of worms here that I should, through experience, know better to avoid, but here goes: Trump, making America invalid in the world, is carrying out the machinations of that shirtless Bond villain in the Kremlin.


To the extent that the Russians have been practicing information warfare against their own people since the late 90s, and they have extended it to the rest of the world over the last ten years or so. The goal not being to win, but to gain money and power, while the rest is confused and unable to figure out who then enemy is and what his motivations are.
Trump is a perfect pawn in this "war on reality"


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Karamazov
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19 Apr 2020, 10:10 am

shlaifu wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I'm all for useful unorthodoxy.

There's some good in everybody - even if hard to find. 8)


Well, he is giving the elites of all the other developed democracies around the world a foretaste of a future within which the US cannot be relied upon to play the role of global umpire.
This may be very good for the rest of us in the long term. :shrug:


I know I'm opening up a whole can of worms here that I should, through experience, know better to avoid, but here goes: Trump, making America invalid in the world, is carrying out the machinations of that shirtless Bond villain in the Kremlin.


To the extent that the Russians have been practicing information warfare against their own people since the late 90s, and they have extended it to the rest of the world over the last ten years or so. The goal not being to win, but to gain money and power, while the rest is confused and unable to figure out who then enemy is and what his motivations are.
Trump is a perfect pawn in this "war on reality"

I’ve heard contemporary Russian propaganda methods described as “firehosing”: in that there’s no central narrative, no ideology being sold, just a endlessly shifting kaleidoscope of every conspiracy theory imaginable sprayed across every channel of communication the Kremlin can gain access too. The point being to confuse, frustrate and bewilder the audience until they self-radicalise in a manner according to their own private biases and prejudices: tearing all possibility of trust and social order to shreds in the process.

I’d go out on a limb and say that the greatest proximate threat to us in Europe is Putin & mob’s machinations and backdoor funding of various political movements across the continent:
I suspect he’s out to disintegrate the EU and then pick off Eastern Europe one state at a time as per the ongoing attempt in Ukraine.

Then the Orange Ones obvious preference for Russian bankrolled malevolents... although that has a four more years max time-limit: if Europe as a whole (including us Brits) can hold off from succumbing further to Putins mind-games we might be through the particular challenge of having both the White House and the Kremlin simultaneously hostile to us.

Then the CCP and their investment patterns are the ultimate long-term issue: for the time being economic colonisation within the European systems as they are seems to be their game, the worry is what happens if(when) our leaders have the will & free hand to push back.



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19 Apr 2020, 3:43 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I'm all for useful unorthodoxy.

There's some good in everybody - even if hard to find. 8)


Well, he is giving the elites of all the other developed democracies around the world a foretaste of a future within which the US cannot be relied upon to play the role of global umpire.
This may be very good for the rest of us in the long term. :shrug:


I know I'm opening up a whole can of worms here that I should, through experience, know better to avoid, but here goes: Trump, making America invalid in the world, is carrying out the machinations of that shirtless Bond villain in the Kremlin.


To the extent that the Russians have been practicing information warfare against their own people since the late 90s, and they have extended it to the rest of the world over the last ten years or so. The goal not being to win, but to gain money and power, while the rest is confused and unable to figure out who then enemy is and what his motivations are.
Trump is a perfect pawn in this "war on reality"


Yes, but it goes beyond that. Putin has stated he thinks the fall of the Soviet Union was his country's greatest catastrophe, and that he blames America, first, and foremost for that. He wants revenge, and that means taking America out as the world leader. So far, he's accomplishing that through his oranges turncoat.


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shlaifu
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19 Apr 2020, 7:36 pm

Karamazov wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I'm all for useful unorthodoxy.

There's some good in everybody - even if hard to find. 8)


Well, he is giving the elites of all the other developed democracies around the world a foretaste of a future within which the US cannot be relied upon to play the role of global umpire.
This may be very good for the rest of us in the long term. :shrug:


I know I'm opening up a whole can of worms here that I should, through experience, know better to avoid, but here goes: Trump, making America invalid in the world, is carrying out the machinations of that shirtless Bond villain in the Kremlin.


To the extent that the Russians have been practicing information warfare against their own people since the late 90s, and they have extended it to the rest of the world over the last ten years or so. The goal not being to win, but to gain money and power, while the rest is confused and unable to figure out who then enemy is and what his motivations are.
Trump is a perfect pawn in this "war on reality"

I’ve heard contemporary Russian propaganda methods described as “firehosing”: in that there’s no central narrative, no ideology being sold, just a endlessly shifting kaleidoscope of every conspiracy theory imaginable sprayed across every channel of communication the Kremlin can gain access too. The point being to confuse, frustrate and bewilder the audience until they self-radicalise in a manner according to their own private biases and prejudices: tearing all possibility of trust and social order to shreds in the process.

I’d go out on a limb and say that the greatest proximate threat to us in Europe is Putin & mob’s machinations and backdoor funding of various political movements across the continent:
I suspect he’s out to disintegrate the EU and then pick off Eastern Europe one state at a time as per the ongoing attempt in Ukraine.

Then the Orange Ones obvious preference for Russian bankrolled malevolents... although that has a four more years max time-limit: if Europe as a whole (including us Brits) can hold off from succumbing further to Putins mind-games we might be through the particular challenge of having both the White House and the Kremlin simultaneously hostile to us.

Then the CCP and their investment patterns are the ultimate long-term issue: for the time being economic colonisation within the European systems as they are seems to be their game, the worry is what happens if(when) our leaders have the will & free hand to push back.


The phrases you're using, the "endlessly shifting kaleidoscope", sound like Adam Curtis. ... I was interested where Curtis got this and went to look for his sources, mainly one Peter Pomerantsev, who's running a thinktank at the London School of economics on media warfare, after he spent a few years in Russia as a TV journalist.
He wrote two books by now, which I hoghly recommend. You did get the gist already, but at least the second of his books, "this is not propaganda - adventures in the war against reality" shows just how ubiquitous this technique of firehosing is becoming.

And, yeah, it seems like the US is a bit ahead of Europe, when it comes to the population self-radicalizing, because there's no one to trust anymore.

The CCP has learned how to use economics against the West, by copying the west, particularly during the 90s Asian financial crisis. They're now returning the favours.
But at least, with the CCP, I can see how they're doing this for the Chinese people.
The people in Putin's Russia however have undergone the Putin treatment of learned distrust....

But let's be clear: what are we expecting? Capitalism is no-holds-barred economic competition, on every level. Not acting aggressively to one's advantage will lead to disadvantage. Russia and China were behind in the 19th century, devastated by Germans and Japanese, then rebuilt under inefficient totalitarian rule in the 20th, and now they are playing their cards as best as they can.
There's no friendship among Nations.


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Pepe
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19 Apr 2020, 10:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Yes, but it goes beyond that. Putin has stated he thinks the fall of the Soviet Union was his country's greatest catastrophe, and that he blames America, first, and foremost for that. He wants revenge, and that means taking America out as the world leader. So far, he's accomplishing that through his oranges turncoat.


He still has a long time to wait, imo.

Putin is a big fish in a small pond, by comparison to the former glories of the U.S.S.R.
BTW, wasn't it the Soviet's arms race that prompted retaliation, in kind?
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
At one stage, you have the soviet army literally turning to cannibalism to survive, because the USSR was broke. 8O

Putin tries to remain relevant by shooting down passenger airlines and poisoning those who he considers dissidents.
I wouldn't worry too much about him. :wink:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


!


Pepe
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19 Apr 2020, 10:16 pm

Karamazov wrote:
Then the CCP and their investment patterns are the ultimate long-term issue: for the time being economic colonisation within the European systems as they are seems to be their game, the worry is what happens if(when) our leaders have the will & free hand to push back.


Trump is pushing back now, against the ccp.
Kudos.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


!