Systemic oppression and "oppression olympics"

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domineekee
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24 Apr 2020, 10:50 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
why do we still see aggressive and divisive behavior amongst human beings surrounding "privilege" when literally it seems like most people are oppressed on some level (by the common definitions of oppression)?


I had my privilege explained to me by someone in a very black and white way that didn't take into account my experience as an individual, it felt like it was being rammed down my throat, it felt every bit as bad as "mansplaining". I also had the impression that the person explaining it to me was very in the habit of objectifying people, I didn't use social media at the time and that mindset of relating to and reacting to images, fragments and representations of real multi-dimensional people felt clinical and dehumanising. I also wasn't equipped with the jargon or terminology to counter what felt (at the time) like an attack. I also had the distinct impression that the person lecturing me was doing so to empower themselves at my expense and that felt bad too.

I'm on board with much of what they had to say but the experience was unpleasant.

It's possible for a few people to make a lot of noise in activist circles and push hard for immediate change. I like idea of change but I don't like some of the tactics employed. I've done my own research into coexisting mental health conditions and personality disorders within some groups and found it to be very high. My introduction into personality politics was delivered by one such person, it could have been better explained and delivered with less glee and more compassion by someone with better regulated emotions.



Last edited by domineekee on 24 Apr 2020, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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24 Apr 2020, 10:52 am

There’s lots of sanctimony in activism. This irritates the hell out of me.



funeralxempire
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24 Apr 2020, 2:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There’s lots of sanctimony in activism. This irritates the hell out of me.


It's almost as though activists are as imperfect as the rest of humanity. Perhaps they deserve the same leeway we'd insist other imperfect humans deserve, at least while we're concealing our own imperfect attitudes and behaviours.

Once we tire of concealing it, it's back to the same judgmental behaviours and lack of empathy for others shortcomings that we all tend to express at times.


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aghogday
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24 Apr 2020, 2:35 pm

The Fact is Out in the New 'Wild'; the Flesh and Blood Place;
Even in 'Trump Town USA'; Long Religious Dresses; the 85 Percent;
the Majority of the 'Religious Right Wrong' Who Voted For Him; Eccentric is the New Black
Now; And 'Black' Is Basically The New Favorite Among Women at Dance Halls; There are still
Hold-outs From Older Generations; but other than the Internet where folks are not 'evolved' in
the 'Real World'; People Get along Just Fine; and Better than ever Before; but i hang around 'Fresh' People';
The Full Variety of the Human Race; When Social Interaction Was Open for Business; When i Grew up; 'Boy
You Don't Dare Smile or Cry; Or We will Basically Hurt Your for Not Being 'What' 'We Are'. The Boomer
Baby Generation Was Not Kind to People Who are Different; Have You Checked Out 'YouTube' 'these days'
And Who makes Money; even online; Eccentric is King and or Queen; Vanilla is Yesterday's Stale Bread of Life;

i don't See as much oppression;
As i see folks afraid to Be Free;

Honestly that's the New Oppression;
Repressions that come from Fear;

i do my best to show folks what
Free Looks Like; What A Bird in Flight Cares about:

In short:

Flight

It's True though i see the
"Mental Illness" In the Newest
Younger Generations; After all
At The Top We've Had 3 Years of Practical Nut;
What Trust is Left When The Top is one Big Circus of Lies.

At Least it was mostly Behind Closed Doors in 'Watergate' of the 70's; instead
of everyone to see the most ridiculous statements ever like the top wanting to shoot-up
Disinfectant as if Sniffing Glue wasn't Bad Enough for the Cultural Virus of My Younger Generation.

Oh Yeah; Then speaking of Repression; Sexual Repression
Was off the Charts for anyone and everyone possibly involved.

There is so much Freedom today;
But Unless That Freedom Lives as Fearless Within;
With a Healthy Trust of Love as Faith in Existential Intelligences Way;
If it does Live that Way when one Masters their own Regulation of
Emotions and Integrations of Senses too; Sticks and Stones are the
only worry, possible; unless someone is gonna take Your livelihood away; Biased Naturally Now; i don't have to worry.
About that; A Feathered Nest with No Economic Problems is probably definitely a greatest Privilege where God is Money.
Other than that Being White and Looking Like a Law Enforcement Officer at least Without my Tie Dye clothing;
Weighing 240 Pounds; Leg Pressing up to 1520 Pounds Max when the Gym was open at least; brings
a lot of Privilege; as no one bothers me when i Dance 13,077 Miles in Public Now; Most of what i've said here comes
from bias of Privilege that almost no one has where i for one live; but you see; i'm honest; my real Super Power in deed;
That Led to much of my Privilege for real; Honesty Truly is a Super Power That Brings Real Respect with 'Humans' at least.


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Whale_Tuune
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26 Apr 2020, 10:13 am

So someone in American society who is "not oppressed" at all would be a white man who is also heterosexual, cisgender, upper-middle class to upper class, vaguely Christian, with no physical or mental disability, who is a natural citizen of the United States, is recognized as white by those around him, and who speaks English as his first language.

Plenty of those people exist but probably no more than 5% of the population. That means *most people* are oppressed in some way.


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26 Apr 2020, 10:43 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
So someone in American society who is "not oppressed" at all would be a white man who is also heterosexual, cisgender, upper-middle class to upper class, vaguely Christian, with no physical or mental disability, who is a natural citizen of the United States, is recognized as white by those around him, and who speaks English as his first language.

Plenty of those people exist but probably no more than 5% of the population. That means *most people* are oppressed in some way.
If you pay any real attention to the Social Justice agenda and rhetoric, and dig into it deep enough, you will find:

* White people oppress non-whites simply by being white.
* Males oppress females simply by being male.
* Heterosexuals oppress LGBQ people simply by being heterosexual.
* Cis-gendered people oppress trans-gendered people simply by being cis-gendered.
* The upper socio-economic classes oppress the lower socio-economic classes simply by being of the upper socio-economic classes.
* Christians oppress non-Christians simply by being Christians.
* Able people oppress disabled people by simply being able.
* Citizens oppress non-citizens simply by being citizens.
* English-speaking people oppress non-English speaking people simply by speaking English.
* Married people oppress un-married people simply by being married.
* Men with girlfriends oppress men without girlfriends simply by having girlfriends.
* Happy people oppress unhappy people simply by being happy.
* Smart people oppress not-so-smart people simply by being smart.
* Educated people oppress uneducated people simply by being educated.
* Popular people oppress unpopular people simply by being popular.

In other words, anyone can oppress anyone else simply simply by being different. Being an SJW is not about pointing out where life is not “fair” and lifting up the “unfortunates” — it’s all about making successful people feel guilty for their successes, and dragging those successful people down to the same socio-economic level as those who cannot or will not even try.


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ASPartOfMe
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26 Apr 2020, 11:19 am

Fnord wrote:
Whale_Tuune wrote:
So someone in American society who is "not oppressed" at all would be a white man who is also heterosexual, cisgender, upper-middle class to upper class, vaguely Christian, with no physical or mental disability, who is a natural citizen of the United States, is recognized as white by those around him, and who speaks English as his first language.

Plenty of those people exist but probably no more than 5% of the population. That means *most people* are oppressed in some way.
If you pay any real attention to the Social Justice agenda and rhetoric, and dig into it deep enough, you will find:

* White people oppress non-whites simply by being white.
* Males oppress females simply by being male.
* Heterosexuals oppress LGBQ people simply by being heterosexual.
* Cis-gendered people oppress trans-gendered people simply by being cis-gendered.
* The upper socio-economic classes oppress the lower socio-economic classes simply by being of the upper socio-economic classes.
* Christians oppress non-Christians simply by being Christians.
* Able people oppress disabled people by simply being able.
* Citizens oppress non-citizens simply by being citizens.
* English-speaking people oppress non-English speaking people simply by speaking English.
* Married people oppress un-married people simply by being married.
* Men with girlfriends oppress men without girlfriends simply by having girlfriends.
* Happy people oppress unhappy people simply by being happy.
* Smart people oppress not-so-smart people simply by being smart.
* Educated people oppress uneducated people simply by being educated.
* Popular people oppress unpopular people simply by being popular.

In other words, anyone can oppress anyone else simply simply by being different. Being an SJW is not about pointing out where life is not “fair” and lifting up the “unfortunates” — it’s all about making successful people feel guilty for their successes, and dragging those successful people down to the same socio-economic level as those who cannot or will not even try.


True they have expanded the definition of “privileged” to include nearly everybody for the purpose of weaponizing it.

What the the SJW’s do used to be called things like “blackmail” and “shaking people down”, “intimidation” , “thought/language policing” that is until SJW’s got enough influence to change acceptable wording.


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26 Apr 2020, 5:17 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
... What the the SJW’s do used to be called things like “blackmail” and “shaking people down”, “intimidation”, “thought/language policing”; that is, until SJW’s got enough influence to change acceptable wording.
When something as simple as a request to clarify one's previously-stated position is treated as a show of disrespect and micro-aggression, then I have to wonder if the quest for Social Justice is actually a desire for control over other people's thoughts.


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26 Apr 2020, 5:34 pm

Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
... What the the SJW’s do used to be called things like “blackmail” and “shaking people down”, “intimidation”, “thought/language policing”; that is, until SJW’s got enough influence to change acceptable wording.
When something as simple as a request to clarify one's previously-stated position is treated as a show of disrespect and micro-aggression, then I have to wonder if the quest for Social Justice is actually a desire for control over other people's thoughts.

I don't wonder about that question.


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27 Apr 2020, 12:38 am

Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I wish I was a military veteran.  I served my country by emphasizing to others the values and ethos of that country...
Disregard my previous statement, then.  Emphasizing values and ethics to others is like expressing thoughts and prayers to disaster victims -- it's the very least someone can do while still claiming to have done something.


There's the old Fnord I have come to know.
Where have you been?
I was worried. 8O


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Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


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27 Apr 2020, 1:20 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
There’s lots of sanctimony in activism. This irritates the hell out of me.


Yup.
I would also call it moral elitism.
It presents me with a nasty mental image.
I can't stand it, either.


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I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Last edited by Pepe on 27 Apr 2020, 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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27 Apr 2020, 1:38 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
So someone in American society who is "not oppressed" at all would be a white man who is also heterosexual, cisgender, upper-middle class to upper class, vaguely Christian, with no physical or mental disability, who is a natural citizen of the United States, is recognized as white by those around him, and who speaks English as his first language.



Ironically, in regards to your statement, no.
Not anymore, in many situations, at least.
It feels like you can't look sideways these days if you are a late-middle-aged white moderate conservative male.

Here in Australia, there are some situations where one is considered a second class citizen.
It really depends on context, imo.


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I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


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27 Apr 2020, 8:27 am

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I wish I was a military veteran.  I served my country by emphasizing to others the values and ethos of that country...
Disregard my previous statement, then.  Emphasizing values and ethics to others is like expressing thoughts and prayers to disaster victims -- it's the very least someone can do while still claiming to have done something.
There's the old Fnord I have come to know.  Where have you been?  I was worried.
I've been here all along, trying to see if being a "Kinder, Gentler Fnord" would change how people treat me.

It hasn't.

It's good to be back.


:twisted:


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27 Apr 2020, 10:56 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
So someone in American society who is "not oppressed" at all would be a white man who is also heterosexual, cisgender, upper-middle class to upper class, vaguely Christian, with no physical or mental disability, who is a natural citizen of the United States, is recognized as white by those around him, and who speaks English as his first language.

Plenty of those people exist but probably no more than 5% of the population. That means *most people* are oppressed in some way.


Smiles; In General, Weak Humans Weak of Love Within...
Feeling Whole And Happy in Joy From Head to Toe Have No 'Reason'
To Oppress as When this Happiness of Joy; Yes, Love Lives Within For Real
Love Does Not Oppress; Love Needs No Worship; Love is No Size, Shape, or Even
Form Love; Nope, Not Even a Four Letter Word
Is the
Energy
Within; Yes, Senses
Love Synergy SPiRiT
oF EMoTioNS NoW
YeS ETeRNaLLY
WiTHIN
Flows
Water
River
Ocean
Whole Blood of LiFE LoVE
MaKinG LiFE GooD NoW; Pay
Grade, Pay Rate, Currency of Breath
ReAlly Living Spirit Wind Within Worthy of a Name Like 'God'.

SMiLes, my FRiEnD; If one Does Not Have 'That';
One Does Not Have Anything Worth 'Really Living';
Labels or Shallow Depth of Love; No Limits to Breathe Free...

i saw the Systematic Oppression and Oppression Olympics Die Long ago..

i
killed
IT Within
And Replaced IT With 'Breath' Burying IT Outside my Living Breathing Soul (Love)...

Yeah Yeah; It's easier if one Stands Tall in Love Without Fear; 'Some' 'Work'
Harder/More Gifted Within...

i Saw a Gorilla Hugging a Kitten; A Feral Killer Cat Become a Lap Cat;

It's Possible....

It's 'Funny'; This is not
A Place THere will likely
Ever Be A Thread about
The Love Olympics; Of Course
Dead Words Don't Dance or Sing...

Most People Mistake me
For Law Enforcement; at least
When i can get a Hair-Cut;
True even a
Hairy White
Silver Back
Gorilla
Will
Be
Love; LiVinG Without A 'Mask'...

Simply
Heaven as
LonG as A SMiLE
Feels Ground Beneath my Love.


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27 Apr 2020, 7:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I wish I was a military veteran.  I served my country by emphasizing to others the values and ethos of that country...
Disregard my previous statement, then.  Emphasizing values and ethics to others is like expressing thoughts and prayers to disaster victims -- it's the very least someone can do while still claiming to have done something.
There's the old Fnord I have come to know.  Where have you been?  I was worried.
I've been here all along, trying to see if being a "Kinder, Gentler Fnord" would change how people treat me.

It hasn't.

It's good to be back.


:twisted:


Good to see. :mrgreen:

It was so obvious that something was going on.
I had thought you were bucking for moderatorship,
As a result of your more left-wing, warm a-and-fuzzy approach.

We all know, that in order to join the fold,
A progressive-leaning philosophical orientation is essential. 8)

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a reich-wing man to enter the kingdom of moderator gods, here."

Glad you finally came to your senses. :mrgreen:


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I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen: