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QFT
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01 May 2020, 5:01 pm

It has been discussed a lot about how reopening the country might be a bad idea. And I agree its probably bad. I am not even thinking from health point of view (I didn't catch anything yet so I am not worried). I am thinking from the point of view of ending the corantine. Because if they re-open it now, the numbers will go up, and this will cause them to close it, and then who knows how much longer it would have to stay closed for the curve to flatten again. But if they were to wait just another couple of months with the country being closed, then everyone who caught it would have healed and then they could reopen it and STAY OPEN. I really wish I could go back to school in the fall on campus and FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW I wish it was closed throughout the summer (when I am at home anyway) so that I can fully enjoy my school in the fall, but thats just my perspective.

But let me bring something ELSE that nobody seemed to have brought up Suppose -- for whatever stupid reason -- they did decide to re-open it. Whats the point in doing it in stages? To me it looks like it is just a technique to handle one's own guilt. During stage 1, they are telling to themselves "no, we are not re-opening the country, we are just doing those tiny little things that are harmless anyway". But come on, if they were harmless, why did you not do it before? And then during stage 2 they tell themselve "hey, we just done these stage 1 things, and the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 isn't that great anyway". So basically, they are lying to themselves every step of the way that they are not "really" reopening the country -- except that, after the very last stage, the country will be as open as it ever was. So if each of their self-lies is true, how did the country end up being open, one might ask?

Anyway, do you have any other reasons why it is in stages? I really want to know. Because if there are no other reasons to do it in stages, it just feels like them trying to deal with their own guilt. Which makes me feel really bad as I imagine myself in their shoes.



kraftiekortie
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01 May 2020, 5:18 pm

Because some activities and businesses carry less risk than others.



QFT
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01 May 2020, 5:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Because some activities and businesses carry less risk than others.


If they were to open the ones that are less risky while while leave the more risky ones closed and keep them closed, I would understand. But since they are going to eventually open all of them, then whats the point of not doing it right away?



domineekee
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01 May 2020, 5:29 pm

QFT wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Because some activities and businesses carry less risk than others.


If they were to open the ones that are less risky while while leave the more risky ones closed and keep them closed, I would understand. But since they are going to eventually open all of them, then whats the point of not doing it right away?

The point is that by doing it in phases herd immunity increases gradually and hospitals don't become overwhelmed. The safest way to achieve this (I think) would be to allow the lowest risk group more freedom to mix ie younger people who don't live with their parents, then the 30 somethings and so on.



QFT
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01 May 2020, 5:32 pm

domineekee wrote:
QFT wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Because some activities and businesses carry less risk than others.


If they were to open the ones that are less risky while while leave the more risky ones closed and keep them closed, I would understand. But since they are going to eventually open all of them, then whats the point of not doing it right away?

The point is that by doing it in phases herd immunity increases gradually and hospitals don't become overwhelmed. The safest way to achieve this would be to allow the lowest risk group more freedom to mix ie younger people who don't live with their parents, then the 30 somethings and so on.


But they aren't doing what you described. What they do is to open "safest" businesses -- across all ages -- then next phase "less safe" ones -- again across all ages -- and so forth.



ASPartOfMe
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01 May 2020, 5:54 pm

There is so much unknown about COVID-19

Reopening in stages is testing process.

If they open a little bit and it is too early less damage will be done then if they had opened everything at once. If the initial test fails then they will reclose for a bit more. If opening a little bit is successful they will open a bit more to see how that goes.


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QFT
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01 May 2020, 6:04 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
If the initial test fails then they will reclose for a bit more.


Are you sure thats the case? To me it sounded as if they have pre-planned all of the stages ahead of time.



domineekee
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01 May 2020, 6:06 pm

QFT wrote:
domineekee wrote:
QFT wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Because some activities and businesses carry less risk than others.


If they were to open the ones that are less risky while while leave the more risky ones closed and keep them closed, I would understand. But since they are going to eventually open all of them, then whats the point of not doing it right away?

The point is that by doing it in phases herd immunity increases gradually and hospitals don't become overwhelmed. The safest way to achieve this would be to allow the lowest risk group more freedom to mix ie younger people who don't live with their parents, then the 30 somethings and so on.


But they aren't doing what you described. What they do is to open "safest" businesses -- across all ages -- then next phase "less safe" ones -- again across all ages -- and so forth.


The safest way isn't necessarily viable. The goal is to keep the economy ticking over and keep the infection rate lower than 1 person infecting 1 other person, I doubt that's possible.



ASPartOfMe
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01 May 2020, 6:42 pm

QFT wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
If the initial test fails then they will reclose for a bit more.


Are you sure thats the case? To me it sounded as if they have pre-planned all of the stages ahead of time.

Since I am not in the government I don’t know. That said preplanning and reclosing may not be mutually exclusive. Example, if there is a 30 percent spike in cases after stage two go back to stage one for two weeks then try again.


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QFT
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01 May 2020, 6:45 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Example, if there is a 30 percent spike in cases after stage two go back to stage one for two weeks then try again.


But I didn't hear them saying any ifs. They just said that they will complete all of those stages in sequence, without "go back" options.



kraftiekortie
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01 May 2020, 6:54 pm

That’s not true. Governors have stated that if cases spike, they will go back to lockdown.



QFT
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01 May 2020, 7:00 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
That’s not true. Governors have stated that if cases spike, they will go back to lockdown.


The question is how far in the future do they intend to do it? Would they do it after any given stage, or would they only do it after all stages have been completted?



ASPartOfMe
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01 May 2020, 7:19 pm

Cases most likely will increase after each stage. That is probably baked in to the plans in order to build herd immunity. The plans probably do involve going back to the prior stage if cases increase by a certain amount.


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02 May 2020, 12:53 am

One of the reasons is to keep society from collapsing. You said in another threadh that your work still continues and that you're living on your mom's money for the time being, so you're all good. However, there are lots of people who've lost their jobs, have no savings (some because they've led wastefull lives, but most simply because they can't afford to save any) and have no one whose wing they could live on. These people need work, otherwise they'll starve in a country like USA that doesn't really support the people in need. And even if Trump decided that tax money would be used to protect those who lost their jobs due to the virus, how long would that be possible with the amount of gathered taxes having dropped so much? Also, even if everything was closed for a few months, the essential workers would still be out and about and could spread the virus.



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02 May 2020, 9:33 am



Micro-Biology Doesn't Lie and This Virus Sure as HELL is Paying NO Attention to any 'Trump' Associated Lies
as 'Trump' is to the point of Replacing the Word Lie in 'Coming Dictionaries' with any common sense at all;
To Be Clear, The 'Coming Dictionaries' are the 'Masses of Uneducated Minions' in the simple task of discerning
when someone is telling them the truth or not; simply by their Non-Verbal Communication; Trump is a Liar
through and through; it's all over His Body Language, without even An 'Orange Turd Word of Lies' AND Deadly.

Anyway; once Again, Yes, Trump the Leader of this Country is a Malignant Liar; but Micro-Biology Doesn't Lie
And Naturally takes advantage of a Liar Ignorant of Science; And all the People Who Follow Him into Ignorance too.

Herd Immunity Does not Come until 60 to 70 Percent of the Human Population has experienced the Disease;
With the Caveat of Anti-Bodies to the Virus that are still working to prevent the Disease; The Jury is still
out in Research as to how resistant one becomes to the Virus once experiencing the actual Disease.

The Vaccine is at least until Next Year (2021) away....

Square Root One Problem; Humans Are Evolved to Live in Relatively Small Groups; 150 to 200 Social
Connections of a Village to Work close to Naked Side-By-Side Together, initially in Warm Environments
To Survive; Key is Foragers; Key is Before We domesticated Animals This Was not a problem as
these Viruses come from Encroaching on the Home of Other WildLife as Viruses jump
Species that are not immune to the Diseases; Yet, 'Karma' (Action=Consequence)
Has a way of Bringing Real Balance that Is Immune to Human Ignorance and Lies.

"CuLTuRaL Clothes" as a Metaphor for All that separates us from a Balance With
Nature; Call the Process 'God' if one Likes in Verb of Peace and Harmony to Survive;
Both Foraging AND Thriving Dancing Close to Naked together Around Drum Beats of Campfire
Moonlit Nights of Ecstasy for the Tribe (i miss the Metro Dance Hall by the way); Yes, CuLTuRaL
Clothes Beginning With Tools/Advantages to Kill; then Words to Collect what works before and to build upon
those Words until We Have Subways In New York that come back to Haunt us for the All the Homes And Freedoms
We took away from Wild Animals to Domesticate them for our taking more than giving; Overpopulating the
World More With the ByProducts of Our Cultures than even Us. So indeed, in metaphor; Human Culture is the
Virus that is Most Dangerous to all Living Stuff on the Planet Earth; 1 in 8 Species of All Animals And Plants
Going extinct in the coming Decades for this Hand of Greed in Hoarding Resources does not come without a price.

Welcome to the Price.

Until We Reach Herd Immunity,
60 to 70 Percent, through the Actual
Disease or a Vaccine; as long as there are
Humans in Close Proximity to each other (Can We
Spell the Opening of Schools in the Fall) The Virus will
Keep coming with a Knock-out-Punch until Herd Immunity comes.

New York City, obviously, is exposed Most to this Sweet 16 Week-Young
Virus and if the Anti-Body Testing there is accurate at 21 Percent that's still a long
way to go to Fall when the Kids go back to School to get up to the 60 to 70 Percent Mark.

Where i Live in a County of 180,000 Folks; there are ~150 Cases and ~7 Deaths; That's A Double Edged
Sword for what it means is total Fertile Ground for the Virus when the Kids go Back to School; Just
Another Huge Meat-Packing Plant in South Dakota Before the Virus made its Presence 5-Alarm Known, there.

Here's the Bottom Lines; Until a Vaccine comes A Whole Lot of People are GOING TO EXPERIENCE THE DISEASE
as yes, 60 Percent of 300 Million is 180 Million Folks and 1.8 Million Deaths at a DEATH FACTOR of 1 Percent of total.

That's Not all; 36 Million Folks had the 'Other Flus' Last Year with 22,000 Deaths; but that's still nothing compared
to a Population, when the Kids go back to School, where only a small minority of folks have Anti-Body Protection
if that even helps then.

Do We want it all in one blow; or do we wanna 'go' gradually; that's the decision being made now.
Problem with one Blow is the Collateral Damage of Overwhelming the Health Care System and the Rest
of the Human Infrastructure that Provides Subsistence to Everyone Now and then; and all the
Other Diseases and Injuries that Fall by the way-side for who gets care and who gets to die.

How gently we want to go into the night...
How gently we want to go into the night...

The Last thing we need is Ignorant Impulsive
And Compulsive Liars at the Helm In A Sinking Ship.

Considering that the United States Rapes and Pillages 40 Percent
of the What Humans 'Eat of the Face of Nature' (Call that God if you like)
Karma Baby; Watch the 'Sins' Sweat of Taking More Than Giving; Karma
Baby; The Gluttony of an Obese Nation with all the Metabolic Syndromes
that make us even more Vulnerable to the Disease; Karma Baby; Back
to Square Root one problem.

LiVE iN Balance
or Live and Let Die.

The Best Course of individual Action to Protect
Against What comes with the Disease and any Disease is
to live in Minimal Negative Stress and Take GREAT CARE of Your Health and Well Being.

The United States FAILS ON ALL COUNTS;
THE JURY; THE TRIAL; THE LAWYER (Defense and Prosecution);
THE JUDGE; IS BALANCE OF NATURE (GOD) NOW For Real; No Lies.

LIES
ARE NOT
GOING TO
CHANGE THIS
IN ANY WAY; Welcome
to 'Back to the Future' and 'Biff' iS in charge of
Just another REAL HUMAN HELL; we ain't seen nothing yet baby...

Micro-Biology Doesn't Lie;
Nor does the Rest of Nature
that is not Saddled with Lies of Written Words;
the Source of all 'The CuLTuRaL Clothes; The Human Virus'.

Recommended Testing Levels and Contact Tracing Will Help;
But the Administration only Cares about the Ignorance of Covering up the Problem.

Bottom Line in reality; No Fall School Or the Country is Screwed; No Sports; No Big Events.

No Big Worries About Huge Stores With Super High Ceilings of Air Space; 6 Feet of Distance; And Masks.

There is a lot of Big Talk About Freedoms and all of that; but it's a lot different when someone YOU LOVE DIES.

It won't take much of that to Personally effect folks to make the idea of Eating Out and Going to Church less palatable.

My Wife is a better Cook Anyway; i only Went out to Eat for the Human Connection; What good is that with
Twilight Zone Masks and Social Distance; What Good is Singing in Church With a Mask in silent Social Distance;
no more when 'one or more of you don't really come together'; Nature Connecting (US); yes, (God) as Metaphor too.

Yeah; It's Harder to Get Motivating Working Out at Home; but yes, i invested many years ago in a fantastic home gym;
It's what you do After Hurricanes; It's what you do during Pandemics; You make room for 'the big rainy days'
Shut-in with 19 Medical Disorders for 66 Months; whatever happens next.

'Suck it up Butter Cup;
Own What You Create'
What Nature is telling us now.... WITH NO LIES....

THE REAL MASTER SPEAKS TRUTH
IN LIGHT (NATURE/GOD/W Ever THE F)
Nature's way... KARMA OF BALANCE 'Springs' or 'Falls'.

A 'Dark Horse' Song Fits in 'Real Good' at 'this' 'point' at least...

Note: 'She' is Mother Nature AKA 'God' in Drag(on) too...

2.7 Billion Human YouTube Views
Touching 'This Egregore of Humanity' It does...

"A Perfect Storm"

Something Like 'this'...


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ASPartOfMe
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02 May 2020, 10:07 am

The nightmare scenario is if COVID-19 is an immunity suppressor and no vaccines and effective treatments can be found. Then no matter what choice is made it will a massive society crippling disaster.

We had a disease like that called AIDS. While there are good treatments it took a long time to find them it is not nearly as transmissible as COVID-19.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 02 May 2020, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.