Sweden the only country with Correct Approach to CVD-19

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magz
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16 May 2020, 4:55 am

I'm all for a more nuanced discussion.

"Diving for herd immunity" by letting people freely contract covid is based on an assumption that - similarily to chicken pox - one gets immunity after contracting the disease and recovering.
This assumption is not backed by any research results, it's just an assumption.
But what if post-infection immunity lasts only e.g. one-two months?
In that case, you will never get 80% of the population immune. In that case, you will never get herd immunity. Just like there is no herd immunity to common cold. In that case, mitigation and treatments are the way to go - and adaptation on the social and economical level.


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cyberdad
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16 May 2020, 5:15 am

magz wrote:
But what if post-infection immunity lasts only e.g. one-two months?
In that case, you will never get 80% of the population immune.


We also have no idea what percentage of the population are asymptomatic yet. A survey in one part of India (Chennai) suggested 98% of people testing positive showed no symptoms.



kraftiekortie
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24 May 2020, 5:20 am

The vast majority of people who were tested in NYC showed symptoms.

So far, according to the results of antibody tests, 1 in 5 people had COVID in NYC.



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24 May 2020, 6:25 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The vast majority of people who were tested in NYC showed symptoms.

So far, according to the results of antibody tests, 1 in 5 people had COVID in NYC.


There is a wide margin of error - depending on the adult population anywhere between 5-80% asymptomatic when tested positive

For children its between 94-99% asymptomatic
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19- ... mptomatic/



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24 May 2020, 6:31 am

The USA doesn't have the data it needs. People who thought they had it were turned away and told to assume they had it. So they have no way of knowing if they are carriers are not. What are they suppose to do now? Stay in quarantine forever?



kraftiekortie
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24 May 2020, 6:55 am

Only people who were rather severely symptomatic were tested in NYC until recently. No symptoms, no test. Mild symptoms, no test.

We will get closer to a true assessment as to actual exposure here when antibody tests become more common. Up to 40% of those tested for antibodies came up positive in some NYC zip codes. The overall rate, so far, is 19.9% in the city. Less in less densely-populated zip codes, though always over 10%.

I’m taking an antibody test 5/28.



Benjamin the Donkey
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24 May 2020, 12:15 pm

Sweden has the correct approach? Seriously? Not to sound smug, but...

Hello from Taiwan.


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24 May 2020, 1:13 pm

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
Sweden has the correct approach? Seriously? Not to sound smug, but...

Hello from Taiwan.


Exactly. Several of us have pointed out that a “correct approach,” to a viral pandemic would be one that minimized deaths.

I think the OP’s criteria for “correctness,” are more economic and financial vs for the good of public health and saving lives. And that’s why many of us here disagree with him.


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24 May 2020, 10:16 pm

My argument is you need a balanced approach that prevents needless jobs losses and delays in our children's education (so its not just financial)

So far the biggest transmission vectors have been cruise ships, aeroplanes and public transport.....governments could have been more creative in stopping these vectors.

In the US Trump was more worried about building a wall to stop Mexicans yet he dawdled aimlessly for months when he should have put a wall against Chinese entering the US.



magz
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25 May 2020, 1:54 am

cyberdad wrote:
My argument is you need a balanced approach that prevents needless jobs losses and delays in our children's education (so its not just financial)

So far the biggest transmission vectors have been cruise ships, aeroplanes and public transport.....governments could have been more creative in stopping these vectors.

In the US Trump was more worried about building a wall to stop Mexicans yet he dawdled aimlessly for months when he should have put a wall against Chinese entering the US.

Because only the Chinese carried the virus to US, of course not white, wealthy New Yorkers coming back from a trip to Italy. [/sarcasm]


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cyberdad
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25 May 2020, 2:19 am

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
My argument is you need a balanced approach that prevents needless jobs losses and delays in our children's education (so its not just financial)

So far the biggest transmission vectors have been cruise ships, aeroplanes and public transport.....governments could have been more creative in stopping these vectors.

In the US Trump was more worried about building a wall to stop Mexicans yet he dawdled aimlessly for months when he should have put a wall against Chinese entering the US.

Because only the Chinese carried the virus to US, of course not white, wealthy New Yorkers coming back from a trip to Italy. [/sarcasm]


You can't really prevent American citizens from returning home but if Trump forced travellers to do mandatory testing then enforced self-isolation on arrival from January then that would have plugged that hole.

Action in January to block American borders would mean 100,000 Americans would still be alive.



magz
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25 May 2020, 4:04 am

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
My argument is you need a balanced approach that prevents needless jobs losses and delays in our children's education (so its not just financial)

So far the biggest transmission vectors have been cruise ships, aeroplanes and public transport.....governments could have been more creative in stopping these vectors.

In the US Trump was more worried about building a wall to stop Mexicans yet he dawdled aimlessly for months when he should have put a wall against Chinese entering the US.

Because only the Chinese carried the virus to US, of course not white, wealthy New Yorkers coming back from a trip to Italy. [/sarcasm]

You can't really prevent American citizens from returning home but if Trump forced travellers to do mandatory testing then enforced self-isolation on arrival from January then that would have plugged that hole.

Action in January to block American borders would mean 100,000 Americans would still be alive.

That's closer to what I think - though countries that issued such regulations - including mine - still ultimately got their own local outbreaks. Borders are not that tight and covid seems very readily transfered.
There were more bad decisions that cost lives.
But acting early seems crucial, indeed.


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kraftiekortie
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25 May 2020, 4:33 am

Most of the COVID in NYC came from Europe.



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25 May 2020, 9:53 am

I think that Japanese culture allows for better self isolation practices without the need for heavy handed government intervention. They have vending machines everywhere. And automated restaurants without human servers. You can buy healthy pre-made and packaged meals from convenience stores.
Japan has "free" healthcare available to its citizens, foreigners, and expatriates.

Studying Japan isn't going to help much. The gap between Japan and other countries is just too great.

Testing numbers may not be as important as being able to test everyone who needs it quickly and accurately.
At the beginning of an outbreak, you only need to be able to test a few people, if you can trace who they became in contact with.



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27 May 2020, 8:10 pm

Mmhmm.. their approach is so correct that their death rate per capita is nearly double that of the USA’s annnnd they’re so far away from achieving herd immunity that they’re never going to get there without a Very High death toll. Like this article says, their herd immunity strategy completely backfired:

https://www.kcra.com/article/the-price- ... s/32656814

I wonder if the OP of this thread is rethinking his opinion as expressed in the thread title? :?


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27 May 2020, 10:08 pm

^ it didn't age well, did it?


why is sweden so intent on completely destroying themselves?


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