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thinkinginpictures
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11 May 2020, 11:53 am

If psychopathy can be tested through brain scan of any kind, why don't we ask every person aged 18 to undergo a compulsory brain test for psychopathy?

If positive, the individual should be incarcerated for life, regardless of criminal record - or even lack thereof.



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11 May 2020, 12:17 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
If psychopathy can be tested through brain scan of any kind...
Can it?  And if it can, are all forms of psychopathy detectable in this way?  Links, please?

My own search of the Internet provided the following information:


Joni Johnston, psychologist, wrote:
There is no actual diagnosis of psychopathy in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The best diagnostic instrument to date is the Psychopathy checklist-Revised, is designed to evaluate the recognized characteristics of psychopathic personality and behavior:

• glibness/superficial charm
• grandiose sense of self worth
• need for stimulation/prone to boredom
• pathological lying
• conning/manipulative
• lack of remorse or guilt
• shallow emotional response
• callous/lack of empathy
• parasitic lifestyle
• poor behavioral controls
• promiscuous sexual behavior
• early behavioral problems
• lack of realistic long term goals
• impulsivity
• irresponsibility
• failure to accept responsibility for their own actions
• many short-term relationships
• juvenile delinquency
• revocation of conditional release
• criminal versatility

The PCL-R assesses these traits with a clinical rating scale of 20 items.  Each item is scored on a three-point scale of 0, 1 or 2, according to specific criteria that is obtained through file information and structured interviews.  A value of 0 is assigned if the item does not apply, 1 if it applies somewhat, and 2 if it fully applies.  Anyone who scores over 30 is diagnosed with psychopathy.


Source: How is psychopathy diagnosed?


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11 May 2020, 12:30 pm

Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.


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11 May 2020, 12:42 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
If psychopathy can be tested through brain scan of any kind, why don't we ask every person aged 18 to undergo a compulsory brain test for psychopathy?  If positive, the individual should be incarcerated for life, regardless of criminal record -- or even lack thereof.
If such a fictional "scan" would be implemented right now, I can easily imagine an Executive Order being immediately issued to exempt the President, the Vice-President, and members of the Senate, but not the House of Representatives.


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Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
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individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


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11 May 2020, 1:07 pm

Most psychopaths are non violent and are just master manipulator's and narcissists but and for the most part end up lonely and rarely cause serious violent harm to everyone.

I don't know enough about psychology to differentiate a psycopath from a sociopath but there isn't much difference,the difference is very nuanced.

Such a government policy would violate civil rights and take few violent people off the streets,we could lower the speed limit to 15 MPH everywhere and that very well might save lives,banning all guns would save lives.We as a free society accept risk as a part of freedom.

We could take away all freedom and treat all adult citizens like 6 year old's and that would probably prevent a lot of people from being hurt and killed.But that is not how we choose to live as free citizens,being hurt or even killed is a risk of being truly alive.


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The_Walrus
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11 May 2020, 1:15 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.

This!

Psychopaths are humans like the rest of us and have human rights like the rest of us. The vast majority never commit a crime. There are elements of their condition we might find undesirable but they’re also an important part of human neurodiversity, as well as, I say again, living individuals who deserve to be treated as individuals rather than subject to genocide.



kraftiekortie
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11 May 2020, 1:29 pm

Yes...they have rights....but I also have the right to dislike psychopaths/sociopaths



The_Face_of_Boo
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11 May 2020, 1:33 pm

If it can be genetically/medically eliminated then yes, but it can't.



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11 May 2020, 1:34 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.

This!

Psychopaths are humans like the rest of us and have human rights like the rest of us. The vast majority never commit a crime. There are elements of their condition we might find undesirable but they’re also an important part of human neurodiversity, as well as, I say again, living individuals who deserve to be treated as individuals rather than subject to genocide.



What if 'eliminated' is actually 'treated'? The title is about eliminating psychopathy , not the people who have it.



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11 May 2020, 1:44 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.

This!

Psychopaths are humans like the rest of us and have human rights like the rest of us. The vast majority never commit a crime. There are elements of their condition we might find undesirable but they’re also an important part of human neurodiversity, as well as, I say again, living individuals who deserve to be treated as individuals rather than subject to genocide.

What if 'eliminated' is actually 'treated'? The title is about eliminating psychopathy , not the people who have it.

Lemme see... OP:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
If psychopathy can be tested through brain scan of any kind, why don't we ask every person aged 18 to undergo a compulsory brain test for psychopathy?

If positive, the individual should be incarcerated for life, regardless of criminal record - or even lack thereof.
Does not sound like treatment to me. Does sound like a very, very bad kind of regime.


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11 May 2020, 1:48 pm

Discrimination, American Disability Act reasonable accommodation

:mrgreen:

Psychopaths did not choose their mental illness.

Psychopaths have rights

They are just :evil: being true to themselves :evil:


:mrgreen:



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11 May 2020, 1:52 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.

This!

Psychopaths are humans like the rest of us and have human rights like the rest of us. The vast majority never commit a crime. There are elements of their condition we might find undesirable but they’re also an important part of human neurodiversity, as well as, I say again, living individuals who deserve to be treated as individuals rather than subject to genocide.



What if 'eliminated' is actually 'treated'? The title is about eliminating psychopathy , not the people who have it.


It cannot be treated. If you give them talk therapy it just makes them worse.

So ...the paradox pointed out by Tech is the only way. In order to eliminate it you would have do something that only a pyschopathic dictator would do...kill em all, or at least imprison them all.

Or...maybe not.

The OP is postulating a hypothetical future in which technology would allow us to give folks something like a CAT scan that would unerroringly always accurately peg individuals as being psychopaths, and would never make false positives. If technology advanced that much then maybe they might also have drugs in this future that can suspend psychopathy, or even cure it.

There IS a difference between psychopaths and sociopaths. And psychopaths are worse.



thinkinginpictures
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11 May 2020, 1:58 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.

This!

Psychopaths are humans like the rest of us and have human rights like the rest of us. The vast majority never commit a crime. There are elements of their condition we might find undesirable but they’re also an important part of human neurodiversity, as well as, I say again, living individuals who deserve to be treated as individuals rather than subject to genocide.


Talking genocide is prohibited on this board I guess, so I'm only talking about jailing them for life.

We could make it a crime to have psychopathy/sociopathy.
Legal issue solved.

About the morality/ethical "issue", I very much disagree with just about everything you said.
To me, they are definitely not "important part of human neurodiversity". They're like the flies that annoy you at night, at best. To me, they deserve not to be treated as human beings, but to be punished for being psychopaths.

Psychopaths, regardless of whether they commit a crime, should be treated as criminals for the very thing of being psychopaths.

Not only do we not have any use of them - there's lots of people we don't have "use of", economically speaking, like the disabled, autistics, mentally ill etc. but I'm not going to suggest they should be punished for who they are.

Only psychopaths should be punished for their personality.

Fact of the matter is, that psychopaths are potentially dangerous. They would commit a crime, if the stakes for them weren't as high as they are.

I don't steal. Not because it is illegal, but simply because I find it immoral.
A psychopath may not steal, but only because of the fear of punishment. That's the difference. That's why they are not an important part of human neurodiversity.



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11 May 2020, 2:03 pm

Psychopathy is an odd one. So far as I know, mainstream psychology doesn't actually recognise the term. It's mainly used in criminology as a catch-all for chronic offenders driven by unusual psychology. Even there it's a controversial. vague and rather outdated term. So it probably overlaps with several "civillian" mental health problems or nerodivergencies. It's caught the imagination of the general public, and got more attention than it deserves. Though it is interesting that people with some (but not all) "pyschopath" traits seem to do well in business. And also as surgeons, would you believe.


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11 May 2020, 2:09 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.


A pig eats grain.
Humans eat grain.

With your logic, humans are like pigs.

Psyhopathic dictators punish anyone who's not like them.
An Anti-psychopathic democratic society may punish psychopaths the same way.

That doesn't make the anti-psychopathic democratic societies like the psychopathic dictatorships.
"Methods" and "ends" are two vastly different subjects.

One can use the same methods, to achieve different ends of society.



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11 May 2020, 2:17 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.

This!

Psychopaths are humans like the rest of us and have human rights like the rest of us. The vast majority never commit a crime. There are elements of their condition we might find undesirable but they’re also an important part of human neurodiversity, as well as, I say again, living individuals who deserve to be treated as individuals rather than subject to genocide.


Talking genocide is prohibited on this board I guess, so I'm only talking about jailing them for life.

We could make it a crime to have psychopathy/sociopathy.
Legal issue solved.

About the morality/ethical "issue", I very much disagree with just about everything you said.
To me, they are definitely not "important part of human neurodiversity". They're like the flies that annoy you at night, at best. To me, they deserve not to be treated as human beings, but to be punished for being psychopaths.

Psychopaths, regardless of whether they commit a crime, should be treated as criminals for the very thing of being psychopaths.

Not only do we not have any use of them - there's lots of people we don't have "use of", economically speaking, like the disabled, autistics, mentally ill etc. but I'm not going to suggest they should be punished for who they are.

Only psychopaths should be punished for their personality.

Fact of the matter is, that psychopaths are potentially dangerous. They would commit a crime, if the stakes for them weren't as high as they are.

I don't steal. Not because it is illegal, but simply because I find it immoral.
A psychopath may not steal, but only because of the fear of punishment. That's the difference. That's why they are not an important part of human neurodiversity.


Your so so wrong,jailing people without evidence of a actually crime is knocking on the door of genocide.

The Nazi's put asocials in camps and asocials are sort of non violent sociopaths.

Remember at one time autism was considered a type of sociopathy. Die autistischen psychopaten im kindasalter,meaning autistic psychopathy in childhood was Hans Asperger's original term for autism.

Your way out of bounds unless your in Nazi Germany,or modern day Morocco where gays get three years in prison for being gay.I have a post about that in LGBT forum.

What you calling for is fascist,I will stop short of calling you a fascist personally but your ideas are fascist.


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