The appeal of online Incel communities to autistic men

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ASPartOfMe
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13 May 2020, 5:46 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
... you're hearing more men today say they can't find a date or a partner...
These seem to be the same men who say they would never date a fat girl, a goth girl, a tattooed woman, a single mom, et cetera ... in other words, they seem to have a very narrowly-defined "type" that they are attracted to, and that "type" usually seems to involve her already being in a relationship.
vermontsavant wrote:
Let's hope things improve for younger autistic men in the dating world, maybe they need to start boooy riot punk bands, maybe consult Kathleen Hanna on how to start a movement.
Well, there does seem to be a lot of interest in male J-Pop and K-Pop artists, so maybe you're on to something there.

Grrl riot changed a lot for woman,maybe things will get better for the man,your a baby boomer so you may not remember Kathleen Hanna and Bikini kill and all that stuff.I actually saw Sonic Youth in concert,you know your gen X if you saw Sonic Youth live LOL.

Off Topic
I saw Sonic Youth in some New York club in the mid 80s.
I remember Riot grrrl. 7 Year b***h was a really clever band name. L7 were on the outskirts of the movement had my favorite song of the 90s "Pretend We're Dead". I really liked "Andres". Their recent stuff was really good also


Back on topic a lot of the male grunge/alt bands of that era were very self-deprecating, the opposite of the classic rock era. I wonder if the some of the roots of incel go back to that era.


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Karamazov
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14 May 2020, 12:50 am

^ I think the genesis of the incel phenomena is believed to be an early website launched in 1993 by a woman (at that time a student) which was meant to be an emotional support resource for unhappily single people of all genders/sexualities: she’s credited with having coined the term “incel” some years later, initially to describe herself.



ASPartOfMe
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14 May 2020, 1:28 am

Karamazov wrote:
^ I think the genesis of the incel phenomena is believed to be an early website launched in 1993 by a woman (at that time a student) which was meant to be an emotional support resource for unhappily single people of all genders/sexualities: she’s credited with having coined the term “incel” some years later, initially to describe herself.

Noted in the OP.

"Incel" has become a term to describe an attitude of self loathing combined with misogyny much to the chagrin of the female who coined the term. What I was alluding was the self depreciation or even self loathing in some of the alt rock lyrics of the era which was a change from the past. Nobody was using the term "Incel" in song lyrics and these groups were not proto incel. Indeed, most of the groups were feminists who placed the blame solely on themselves(See Nirvana's 'All Apologies'). I was wondering if that change from the braggadocio of a lot of classic rock lyrics to self depreciation was a step in what would devolve into incel thinking.


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Karamazov
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14 May 2020, 1:43 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
^ I think the genesis of the incel phenomena is believed to be an early website launched in 1993 by a woman (at that time a student) which was meant to be an emotional support resource for unhappily single people of all genders/sexualities: she’s credited with having coined the term “incel” some years later, initially to describe herself.

Noted in the OP.

"Incel" has become a term to describe an attitude of self loathing combined with misogyny much to the chagrin of the female who coined the term. What I was alluding was the self depreciation or even self loathing in some of the alt rock lyrics of the era which was a change from the past. Nobody was using the term "Incel" in song lyrics and these groups were not proto incel. Indeed, most of the groups were feminists who placed the blame solely on themselves(See Nirvana's 'All Apologies'). I was wondering if that change from the braggadocio of a lot of classic rock lyrics to self depreciation was a step in what would devolve into incel thinking.

Possibly for some: anecdotally I know that I deeply identified with the self-hating alienation that was a big element of some bands in that era of rock, particularly Nirvana. Looking back I think it reinforced those feelings and made life harder to cope with.

I have sometimes wondered if I’d have gone that way if I’d had sufficient social inclinations at that age to seek out other alienated adolescents online.
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(Afterthought added with edit button)
That said: the incel phenomena didn’t really blow up into a significant phenomena, nor did it generate solitary terrorist actions, until 15-20 years after the alt-rock/grunge wave had petered out and ceased to be part of the mainstream media landscape.
So, although there certainly was plenty of alienated self-hate in the male songwriters of that genre’s lyrical style, I think if we were to look for pop-cultural influences more recent trends might be more relevant.
Although the synchronicity of “incel” with “alt-right” may be of significant relevance.



Last edited by Karamazov on 14 May 2020, 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

smudge
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14 May 2020, 2:28 am

Unfortunately there are some very toxic people on this forum. They act nice in posts, but in PMs they are extremely vile.

It makes me uncomfortable with posting here.



The_Walrus
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14 May 2020, 3:33 am

smudge wrote:
Unfortunately there are some very toxic people on this forum. They act nice in posts, but in PMs they are extremely vile.

It makes me uncomfortable with posting here.

Please do report PMs that are harassing, abusive, or otherwise vile.



ASPartOfMe
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14 May 2020, 8:18 am

The_Walrus wrote:
smudge wrote:
Unfortunately there are some very toxic people on this forum. They act nice in posts, but in PMs they are extremely vile.

It makes me uncomfortable with posting here.

Please do report PMs that are harassing, abusive, or otherwise vile.

recommendation seconded

If you have misogyny/incel issues you want to get rid of this forum should be supportive. If not you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Being nice in public and abusive in private does not prove your manhood, it proves your cowardliness.


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14 May 2020, 9:49 am



"Initially, the population grew rapidly, doubling every 55 days. The population reached 620 by day 315, after which the population growth dropped markedly, doubling only every 145 days. The last surviving birth was on day 600, bringing the total population to a mere 2200 mice, even though the experiment setup allowed for as many as 3840 mice in terms of nesting space. This period between day 315 and day 600 saw a breakdown in social structure and in normal social behavior. Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete, wounding of young, increase in homosexual behavior, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against.[2]

After day 600, the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting and only engaging in tasks that were essential to their health. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed "the beautiful ones." Breeding never resumed and behavior patterns were permanently changed.

The conclusions drawn from this experiment were that when all available space is taken and all social roles filled, competition and the stresses experienced by the individuals will result in a total breakdown in complex social behaviors, ultimately resulting in the demise of the population.

Calhoun saw the fate of the population of mice as a metaphor for the potential fate of man. He characterized the social breakdown as a "second death," with reference to the "second death" mentioned in the Biblical book of Revelation 2:11.[1] His study has been cited by writers such as Bill Perkins as a warning of the dangers of living in an "increasingly crowded and impersonal world."[3]"

Yes, We Have A Common Ancestor from Around 75 Million Years ago...
The Rodent Who Still Makes a Living in the 'Normal' Intermittent
Reinforcement that Comes with Securing Subsistence in Nature at Large
Working together in Struggle And Intermittent Success Always in Common Doing it Together.

We are Not Immune to the Nature of the Social Animal Beasts We still Are;
We Walk Upright; but still we cannot afford to Live Without Social Roles;
Without Struggle and Intermittent Reinforcement; And With Our Tails Between our Legs;
Whether We have tails or not.

To Be Clear, We are Not Rats; We Have an advanced Neo Cortex;
To Be Clear, We Still Are Rats in the Sense and Feel
That Our Reptile Brain and Mammalian Brain are
Essentially the same Directing our So-called Reasons First.

Here's A Problem; We are Domesticated;
We have Become Clothed Sheep; We Are Both
Sheep And Wolves, Trapped in a Prison Of Consuming Each Other Into Extinction;
to Use Another Metaphor from Literature When the Cheese Is Moved We Don't 'know' what to do.
(the reason folks are crowding into Bars in Wisconsin, now; they have no clue how to adapt to a Deadly Pandemic)
Hint: You don't get together until after 'Passover'.

There Are A Whole Lot of Us; If A Virus doesn't do us in more quickly;
The Misery and Suffering Will Just continue on until the Last one no longer Breathes.

As Always Nature IS the Karmic Answer:
Live by the Intelligence of Nature or Die
From the Ignorance of what is Already Forgotten Within.

In Reality'; In the Reality of Breath; Humans are already
Proving They are 'Dumber' than ever before they were 'Smart'.

My God;
Just
Look Around.

1. Aggressive Female Booty Dances in Bars;
(i'm not complaining) For i am Selected by them;
And On Top of that i'm already Happily Enough Married.

2. Science Already Provides evidence that Homosexuality
Is an all Natural Human Response too; to Over-Population.

3. As Far As the Beautiful Ones Go;
Metrosexuals Recently Here and
Make-up for Men in South Korea.

4. Younger Folks are Losing Interest in the Opposite
Sexual Orientation in Japan and Fertility Rates are going down here, Overall, too.

5. In Places where there is No Migration from folks who are still Reproducing;
Populations are Decreasing to the Point Where Clean-Up Crews clean up the
Remains of Elders out of Apartments who have no Social Connections, per example of Japan again.

Instant Gratification; Over-Population; And Loss of Social Roles; Are The Environments at Hand Now that
Predictably Produce 'Incel Communities of Males'; And Potentially the Extinction of The Entire Species on down
the Rabbit Hole Road. We All Eventually Pay a Price When One Part of the Population goes out of Balance With Nature.

Unity Together Working;
Or Divide Conquer and
all The Chess Pieces and Cards Fall;
Like Donald Duck Trump's Son Eric Recently Said
On Twitter, "The Chips are Starting to Crumble".
Yep; Chip off the Old Duck Quack Block; Is what it is now.

Yep; This is what's Up And Down, Doc...

-Bugs Bunny

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun


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smudge
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15 May 2020, 10:45 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
smudge wrote:
Unfortunately there are some very toxic people on this forum. They act nice in posts, but in PMs they are extremely vile.

It makes me uncomfortable with posting here.

Please do report PMs that are harassing, abusive, or otherwise vile.

recommendation seconded

If you have misogyny/incel issues you want to get rid of this forum should be supportive. If not you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Being nice in public and abusive in private does not prove your manhood, it proves your cowardliness.


Thanks for the advice guys. I agree with you.



The_Face_of_Boo
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15 May 2020, 3:17 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Boy has life changed,as a gen X'er I came of age in the early 90's,the age of grrll riot feminism,Kathleen Hanna,Kim Gordon and even Courtney Love was sort of grrll riot.

They would say overweight woman weren't like by men,only the size 4 girls could get a date,men put pressure on women to be ultra slim,overweight woman loathed themselves.

You don't hear that talk from women and feminists much anymore,your hearing more men today say they can't find a date or a partner,the world does change,things are very different than when I was young.

Let's hope things improve for younger autistic men in the dating world,maybe they need to start boooy riot punk bands,maybe consult Kathleen Hanna on how to start a movement.



Let’s start by burning our boxers.

That would be news!



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15 May 2020, 5:57 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Let’s start by burning our boxers.

That would be news!

A Boxer Rebellion without smack! That would be interesting.


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16 May 2020, 12:54 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Let’s start by burning our boxers.

That would be news!

A Boxer Rebellion without smack! That would be interesting.


But not my Hello Kitty boxer please.