Former Republican Presidents/Candidates don't like Trump
18 May 2020, 10:06 am
QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.
But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way._________________
18 May 2020, 10:17 am
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.
But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way.But why would this be more applicable to former candidates than to other Republicans?
18 May 2020, 10:22 am
QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.
But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way._________________
18 May 2020, 10:27 am
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.
But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way.I am not asking why people like him or why people don't. I am asking why is it -- the small handful of Republicans that doesn't like him -- just HAPPENED to coincide with former presidents and presidential candidates. Don't you think this is quite a bit of coincidence?
18 May 2020, 10:55 am
kraftiekortie wrote:
One reason is because former Presidents know what it means to be President.....and they feel Trump is insulting the Office of President through his un-Presidential actions, and how he carries himself in general.
And what about former presidential candidates? Are you saying that running a campaign would give them insight into the job even though they never actually ended up in the office?
18 May 2020, 11:56 am
There are anti-Trump Republicans who are not former Presidents or nominees. For example, Joe Walsh, Bill Weld, Gary Johnson, Charlie Baker, Larry Hogan, Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, John Huntsmann, Justin Amash, Michael Bloomberg, and Jeb Bush. Some of these people have openly left the party, a few have retired, some may have quietly left, but they are all current or former Republicans who have rejected Trump.
Bob Dole did endorse Donald Trump.
I think perhaps the reason why Romney and McCain were able to clinch the nomination was partially because they were seen as relatively moderate. Actually, this is true of Trump as well - he was able to appeal to wider audiences than usual because he didn’t want to massively got welfare and he claimed to support LGBTQ rights. But Trump differs from traditional Republican moderates because he is very uncouth, less accepting of democratic norms, and not supportive of international institutions like NATO. Trump is “moderate” in a very different way to traditional Republican moderates and this naturally puts him at odds with them.
On the other hand, the typical Republican is willing to sell out more of their values because they think in the long run having a Republican in the White House is more important than having someone broadly sensible if that person is a Democrat. And Democrats can’t really throw stones when you consider 85% of them would probably still vote Democrat in a Sanders-Huntsmann race.
Edit: I should add that not all the anti-Trump Republicans are moderates. Amash and Walsh for example are both rather conservative. But the point still holds that moderates are more likely to have ideological differences with Trump and are also more likely to be nominated for President.
18 May 2020, 12:00 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
There are anti-Trump Republicans who are not former Presidents or nominees. For example, Joe Walsh, Bill Weld, Gary Johnson, Charlie Baker, Larry Hogan, Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, John Huntsmann, Justin Amash, Michael Bloomberg, and Jeb Bush. Some of these people have openly left the party, a few have retired, some may have quietly left, but they are all current or former Republicans who have rejected Trump.
Bob Dole did endorse Donald Trump.
I think perhaps the reason why Romney and McCain were able to clinch the nomination was partially because they were seen as relatively moderate. Actually, this is true of Trump as well - he was able to appeal to wider audiences than usual because he didn’t want to massively got welfare and he claimed to support LGBTQ rights. But Trump differs from traditional Republican moderates because he is very uncouth, less accepting of democratic norms, and not supportive of international institutions like NATO. Trump is “moderate” in a very different way to traditional Republican moderates and this naturally puts him at odds with them.
On the other hand, the typical Republican is willing to sell out more of their values because they think in the long run having a Republican in the White House is more important than having someone broadly sensible if that person is a Democrat. And Democrats can’t really throw stones when you consider 85% of them would probably still vote Democrat in a Sanders-Huntsmann race.
Bob Dole did endorse Donald Trump.
I think perhaps the reason why Romney and McCain were able to clinch the nomination was partially because they were seen as relatively moderate. Actually, this is true of Trump as well - he was able to appeal to wider audiences than usual because he didn’t want to massively got welfare and he claimed to support LGBTQ rights. But Trump differs from traditional Republican moderates because he is very uncouth, less accepting of democratic norms, and not supportive of international institutions like NATO. Trump is “moderate” in a very different way to traditional Republican moderates and this naturally puts him at odds with them.
On the other hand, the typical Republican is willing to sell out more of their values because they think in the long run having a Republican in the White House is more important than having someone broadly sensible if that person is a Democrat. And Democrats can’t really throw stones when you consider 85% of them would probably still vote Democrat in a Sanders-Huntsmann race.
What is it about "Rockefeller" Republicans that many Republicans reject them?
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18 May 2020, 12:45 pm
QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.
But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way.I am asking the question rather than making a point. The question is: does anyone know the explanation behind this pattern? This is an intellectual curiosity. It has nothing to do with wanting to either keep Trump in the office or get him out of the office. Rather, it has to do with trying to understand for the sake of trying to understand.
Exactly. you're asking a dumb question that you should be able to answer on your own. The "pattern" that "connects" the former POTUS and POTUS hopefuls is kinda obvious. The obvious thing being -that very thing-that they all are former POTUS, or close, and they all know the job first hand (Romney as well even though he lost the election he is still senate and is close to the White HOuse).And since they each know the job of being POTUS they all are like doctors who can see the myriad technical ways that the new intern is not working out.
Moving on...keep in mind that the GOP elite is for free trade, and is anti Russia (more anti Russia than the Dems), and is pro our NATO allies. So a candidate who is for tariffs, who is pro Russia and is against our NATO allies is very much at odds with the GOP elite. And that's before you get into Trumps habit of disrespecting gold star families and disrespecting war heroes in general and generally being anti-patriotic (despite being photographed literally physically French kissing an American flag). So its kinda obvious the GOP elite never loved Trump, but goes along with him anyway because of his populist power. The senate GOP head honcho. Paul Ryan, tried working with Trump, but then...quietly retired...about eight weeks into the Trump regime. So there is one major rat who left the sinking ship early on! LOL!
Now that the Trump ship is sinking a little faster than before...expect more GOP rats to abandon it.
18 May 2020, 1:03 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
There are anti-Trump Republicans who are not former Presidents or nominees. For example, Joe Walsh, Bill Weld, Gary Johnson, Charlie Baker, Larry Hogan, Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, John Huntsmann, Justin Amash, Michael Bloomberg, and Jeb Bush.
I thought Gary Johnson is Libertarian, which would preclude him from being Republican since you can't be in two parties at the same time. Or can you?
As far as Bill Weld and Jeb Bush, they both tried to compete in Republican primary against Trump so it makes sense why "they" don't like him. That is quite a bit different from McCain and Romney, since Trump didn't participate in the elections when they were running.
18 May 2020, 1:21 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
(Romney as well even though he lost the election he is still senate and is close to the White HOuse)
Romney being in the senate won't explain it, since the rest of the Republian senators were in the senate too, yet they all voted to acquit Trump.
So could it be that running for the office is what separates Romney from the rest of the senators? As in, when he ran for office he had the kind of experience that other senators didn't have?
18 May 2020, 2:48 pm
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
(Romney as well even though he lost the election he is still senate and is close to the White HOuse)
Romney being in the senate won't explain it, since the rest of the Republian senators were in the senate too, yet they all voted to acquit Trump.
So could it be that running for the office is what separates Romney from the rest of the senators? As in, when he ran for office he had the kind of experience that other senators didn't have?
Yeah. Pretty much.
18 May 2020, 4:19 pm
QFT wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
There are anti-Trump Republicans who are not former Presidents or nominees. For example, Joe Walsh, Bill Weld, Gary Johnson, Charlie Baker, Larry Hogan, Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, John Huntsmann, Justin Amash, Michael Bloomberg, and Jeb Bush.
I thought Gary Johnson is Libertarian, which would preclude him from being Republican since you can't be in two parties at the same time. Or can you?
As far as Bill Weld and Jeb Bush, they both tried to compete in Republican primary against Trump so it makes sense why "they" don't like him. That is quite a bit different from McCain and Romney, since Trump didn't participate in the elections when they were running.
Gary Johnson was a Republican when he was governor of New Mexico before joining the Libertarian Party.
_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!
Now proficient in ChatGPT!
18 May 2020, 4:36 pm
Tim_Tex wrote:
QFT wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
There are anti-Trump Republicans who are not former Presidents or nominees. For example, Joe Walsh, Bill Weld, Gary Johnson, Charlie Baker, Larry Hogan, Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, John Huntsmann, Justin Amash, Michael Bloomberg, and Jeb Bush.
I thought Gary Johnson is Libertarian, which would preclude him from being Republican since you can't be in two parties at the same time. Or can you?
As far as Bill Weld and Jeb Bush, they both tried to compete in Republican primary against Trump so it makes sense why "they" don't like him. That is quite a bit different from McCain and Romney, since Trump didn't participate in the elections when they were running.
Gary Johnson was a Republican when he was governor of New Mexico before joining the Libertarian Party.
I thought "joined" is an understatement. He actually "leads" the Libertarian party. I don't know how long ago he became Libertarian, but am I right in my "guess" that it was a really long time ago, pretty much when that party started? In any case, Libertarians disagree with both Republicans and Democrats. They disagree with Republicans when it comes to gay marriage and abortion, and they disagree with Democrats when it comes to taxes and gun control. So I don't see how you can still think of him as a Republican, his views must have changed a great deal between his Republican past and now.
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