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The sign "work shall set you free"

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QFT
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26 May 2020, 2:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I wish the concentration camp inmates had the experience of people getting on planes at airports.


I didn't say they are the same. I know concentration camp inmates died a horrible death while people going on the planes are out for a nice vacation. But, at the same time, I can still see some common human psychology trends that might be at work both times. Kinda like asymptomatic sufferers of COVID 19 have the same underlying processes as people that die horrible death from it. I am not trying to minimize the suffering, just trying to analyze commonalities and differences in order to study the topic.



kraftiekortie
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26 May 2020, 2:28 pm

There is only a very superficial commonality, in my opinion.



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26 May 2020, 2:33 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There is only a very superficial commonality, in my opinion.


Well, naturalplastic is the one who suggested it first, and I simply agreed with him.



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26 May 2020, 2:37 pm

QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Just like airports have to handle the crowds going through security smoothly and efficiently today.


Thats an interesting analogy. Are you trying to say that the analogue of "work" in concentration camp is having to cooperate with airport security and the analogue of the "encouraging sign" is looking forward to buying all this nice food while you wait for the plane? It certainly worked in my case (back in the good old days when I didn't have to worry about COVID 19, that is).

Since 9-11 airports have to be hard-ass. They've long had signs at the security points warning "if you make sarcastic jokes about having a bomb we will arrest you on the spot" because of the huge numbers they have to process

You know full well what I mean. So stop trolling

What I mean is that that message was meant to convay "don't panic. We wont kill you. In fact we need you for labor.So just stay calm, and cooperate while you enter the camp". And once you did enter the camp and became prisoner the message took on different, and grimly mocking meaning.



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26 May 2020, 2:38 pm

I don’t care who suggested it.

If my best friend suggested it, I would say the same thing.

I’ve made poor analogies before. That’s a poor analogy.



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26 May 2020, 2:42 pm

QFT wrote:
CarlM wrote:
but rather as a kind of mystical declaration that self-sacrifice in the form of endless labor does in itself bring a kind of spiritual freedom.


Even with spiritual freedom it is also surprising. A common belief among Christians is that nobody can attain spiritual freedom unless they come to Christ. Now I realize that "common" doesn't mean that all Christians would believe it -- there are some Christians that believe that Jews can be saved without coming to Christ. But since Nazis were antisemitic, one would assume that Nazis would hold the former belief rather than the latter.

But then again, Nazis were rejecting some of the key Christian dogma. For example, Hitler was involved in the accult, which Christianity would condemn. So could it be that -- ironically enough -- Nazi were among the most "tolerant" when it comes to who is saved and who isn't -- despite being "intolerant" when it comes to other things? So, on the one hand, they would argue that Jews are so despicable here on earth that they should all be killed -- yet, on the other hand, they will "also" argue that Jews can be saved spiritually, even if they don't believe in Jesus. That kind of combination of opposite beliefs would be pretty ironic, although its logically possible.

Do you think this is what it was?


Hitler's affiliation with the occult has probably been exaggerated. It was Heinrich Himmler who had bought into mysticism, which he had incorporated into the SS. Hitler himself was personally embarrassed by Himmler, but hey, when you need the head of your secret police/intelligence apparatus, what can you do?


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QFT
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26 May 2020, 2:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Hitler's affiliation with the occult has probably been exaggerated. It was Heinrich Himmler who had bought into mysticism, which he had incorporated into the SS. Hitler himself was personally embarrassed by Himmler, but hey, when you need the head of your secret police/intelligence apparatus, what can you do?


I think I heard that Himler participated in creation of the film "Eternal Jew". I don't remember whether he was the movie creator or the voice over. I remember that these were two separate people, and one of them was Himler.

In any case, I was always wondering about that title. To me it sounds like an alluring mysticism -- and I can't see how it would denegrade the Jew. I had some of my own theories. For example, witchcraft might be alluring mysticism too, yet witchcraft is sinful. So maybe they were putting the Jew into the same category. But of coure I don't know, thats just my theory.

In any case, now that you said that Himler was into an accult, maybe THAT is the reason why the name of the movie sound so mystical? Maybe one should look into the specific brand of the occult Himler was into, in order to get an explanation for the name of that movie?



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26 May 2020, 8:22 pm

QFT wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Hitler's affiliation with the occult has probably been exaggerated. It was Heinrich Himmler who had bought into mysticism, which he had incorporated into the SS. Hitler himself was personally embarrassed by Himmler, but hey, when you need the head of your secret police/intelligence apparatus, what can you do?


I think I heard that Himler participated in creation of the film "Eternal Jew". I don't remember whether he was the movie creator or the voice over. I remember that these were two separate people, and one of them was Himler.

In any case, I was always wondering about that title. To me it sounds like an alluring mysticism -- and I can't see how it would denegrade the Jew. I had some of my own theories. For example, witchcraft might be alluring mysticism too, yet witchcraft is sinful. So maybe they were putting the Jew into the same category. But of coure I don't know, thats just my theory.

In any case, now that you said that Himler was into an accult, maybe THAT is the reason why the name of the movie sound so mystical? Maybe one should look into the specific brand of the occult Himler was into, in order to get an explanation for the name of that movie?


Sorry to spoil tge mysticism for you, but "eternal something" is just a turn of phrase in German, denoting a fact of nature. - An unchangeable trait. Essentialism.
Insofar, it's not mystic in any way, just good old racism.

Himmler was definitely owning a leatherbound copy of the Bhagavad Gita, which is a great religious text giving justification for any atrocity imaginable. That's not the only possible reading of it, mind you.
I don't know what else he was into.


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26 May 2020, 8:40 pm

Himmler was the one who put the “Final Solution” to action.

To Himmler, the “Eternal Jew” was a person “eternally” without possibility of redemption. He wanted the Jews “eternally” gotten rid of.



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27 May 2020, 12:35 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Himmler was the one who put the “Final Solution” to action.

To Himmler, the “Eternal Jew” was a person “eternally” without possibility of redemption. He wanted the Jews “eternally” gotten rid of.


Along with his right-hand-man, Reinhard Heydrich. Heydrich was himself of partial Jewish ancestry (he had to do a lot of creative writing with his SS family tree), apparently believing if he killed all the Jews it would wash away his own Jewishness.


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27 May 2020, 8:12 am

This reminds me of someone I know very well.

He has a Jewish mother—but vociferously denies he is Jewish.



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27 May 2020, 8:27 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Himmler was the one who put the “Final Solution” to action.

To Himmler, the “Eternal Jew” was a person “eternally” without possibility of redemption. He wanted the Jews “eternally” gotten rid of.


Along with his right-hand-man, Reinhard Heydrich. Heydrich was himself of partial Jewish ancestry (he had to do a lot of creative writing with his SS family tree), apparently believing if he killed all the Jews it would wash away his own Jewishness.


If he killed all the Jews, he would be the only Jew alive -- and, therefore, the most Jewish person on the planet. Which, ironically enough, would be the opposite to his goal, if you put it this way :)



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27 May 2020, 8:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
This reminds me of someone I know very well.

He has a Jewish mother—but vociferously denies he is Jewish.


Are you referring to someone well known, or just a friend of yours?



kraftiekortie
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27 May 2020, 8:30 am

A friend of mine.



kraftiekortie
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27 May 2020, 8:34 am

Himmler is not Jewish. Only Heydrich was of Jewish ancestry.

Both were Nazis, and wanted to kill all Jews.

I doubt that Heydrich saw the irony.



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28 May 2020, 6:50 pm

QFT wrote:
Well, there doesn't seem to be a lot of need to "lull" them in, seeing that they were "forced" in regardless (for one thing, they weren't armed and Nazi soldiers were).

Or are you saying that -- despite not being armed -- they might still prevail over Nazis since they have a lot more to lose, hence they would have more adrenaline released? But if they put out that sign, they might still not want to go there, but their adrenaline levels won't be as high so they won't be able to prevail?

Same reasons they had Jewish police in the camps. To make them think theirs hope. People working willingly thinking it’ll get their freedom will work better then those made to work. Some until the end believed they would put be killed. Work camps were and still are today a thing. People in work camps died but nit usually the intent. The Nazis did something that hadn’t been done before. It’s why it was so hard for most people to beleive it was happening. Which is also unfortunately why it happen. The idea that if they did what was asked they’re survive. Not knowing the Nazi had no interest in any of them surviving.

It’s strange. Like why do people at gun point dig their own graves?
Why don’t people fight back when a single gun man is going one by one killing them?

Hope and fear. Hopefully such a situation does t happen again but personaly fear it’s happening as we speak in North Korea.


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