Woman calls cops another Black Jogger

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cyberdad
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12 Jul 2020, 8:35 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Telling Chris in advance back away and let me continue to break the law or I am going to tell the cops an African-American man is threatening me was an explicitly racist act as well and showing a sense of entitlement.


Which is what I have been trying to say, I think she is more weaponising it from a sense of entitlement rather than an inherent sense of overt racism (there is no evidence from her background she is inherently racist) but the end result is the same.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
His reaction to the unleashed dog is unfathomable to me. When I see an unleashed dog with images of the dog leaping up and taking a part of my face I try to get as far away as possible as gingerly as possible, not film and try to take the dog, my lord. If he feels that strongly about unleashed dogs he should have walked away and called the cops thus giving the cops a better chance of catching her red-handed.


If you read the account he was trying to reason with her before pulling his dog biscuits when she went into threat mode and he was forced to pull his camera and start filming in case he was suddenly accosted by police when cycling home ( a very real threat).

The dog biscuit thing is weird (I have said this before). Is it possible he's such an avid bird watcher that when he see's an unleashed pooch he draws it to him with the biscuits so he can find the owner and castigate them?



Brictoria
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12 Jul 2020, 11:24 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Blacks can be racist, autistics can be ableist. There is no innate white or NT privilege.


Yes I agree with you blacks can also be ableist, homophobic and elitist (the old brown paper bag test was enthusiastically practiced by brainwashed light skinned blacks in the pre-civil rights era).

But can they be racist? I posit that the answer to that question is contextual. White privilege is a social psychological phenomena that is scientifically evidence based.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10 ... 1417753600

It's such a social taboo that even on discussion forums it illicits a negative response from people who self-identify as white.


Racism:
.


Did you read the article? or is reading hard for you as well?


What: An article about "racial privilege"? How does that impact on racism, when racism is independant on "privilege"?

Racism is "the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.", so to see someone of particular race(s) as capable (or incapable) due to their race is itself racism...

The definition of racism does not require the person being racist to belong to the majority, simply that they treat people of one race as being superior (or inferior) to those of a different race, or ascribe certain characteristics to those of a subset of races, whilst claiming those who are not included in this subset cannot have this characteristic.


Ok lets agree to disagree over semantics.


Not a problem.

Just as long as you are aware that there will be other people with ASD who read these posts (and others on this site) and also take a literal understanding of the term "racism" (rather than the subjective opinion that only the "majority" or "privileged" can be racist) and so will objectively view those making claims that go against this literal definition as exhibiting racism\racist behaviour.


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cyberdad
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13 Jul 2020, 1:35 am

Yeah I keep forgetting about the literal stuff

BTW the video you posted is 2hrs long...I couldn't watch the whole thing. I am legitimately interested in whether Amy Cooper has an underlying illness.



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13 Jul 2020, 1:51 am

cyberdad wrote:
Yeah I keep forgetting about the literal stuff

BTW the video you posted is 2hrs long...I couldn't watch the whole thing. I am legitimately interested in whether Amy Cooper has an underlying illness.


There wasn't much about her, as a person, mentioned, more general stuff to do with the case, probably 20 or so minutes from the point I linked it at, but it looks like that part of the URL was removed.

From around 49:00 he starts giving a bit of personal background which may help understand him if you don't know much about him.

The talk about this case starts around 51:40 or so (starts off a bit slow).


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Brictoria
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13 Jul 2020, 6:17 am

cyberdad wrote:
BTW the video you posted is 2hrs long...I couldn't watch the whole thing. I am legitimately interested in whether Amy Cooper has an underlying illness.


A new video just popped up with an interview of her lawyer.


The first 30 minutes gives a background of how he got into law and the sort of cases he does (from around 32:30 he explains who he wouldn't defend).

From around 30:00 he is talking about the "Cooper" case (34:00 for more specific details), with talk about his nephew, and how he saw this sort of thing could impact on him (or people like him in the future) from around 39:50.

It will be interesting to find out what the other information that he hints at, and which were behind her reaction, may be, too.


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13 Jul 2020, 4:49 pm

Brictoria wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I would still need to see sources where a black person has called the cops on a white person for no reason.


The name "Jussie Smollet" came to mind, but turns out it wasn't a white person after all...


He hired two men to stage a hate crime so this is unrelated to what we are talking about.

I knew you were going to mention something unrelated. It always happens.


You DID ask for an example of a black person calling the cops on a white person for no reason, which was EXACTLY what he did...The fact that the "white person" didn't exist doesn't change the facts regarding what he did.



But it was staged. How is that even the same as calling the cops on a white person for no reason?

Did the bird man and Amy Cooper stage their incident? Did Amy hire the bird man to come confront her and to record her for the sake of gaining attention in the media?

That would be interesting. That is exactly what Jussie did. He wanted to gain more attention so he used the current issue to get attention and to help with his fame. But he got caught. I wonder if one of those men decided to throw him under the bus.


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13 Jul 2020, 4:55 pm

QFT wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Quote:
"I will do what I want and you may not like it"


Still a bigger issue if that is percieved as a threat.


Why would applying a dictionary definition of a threat imply a bigger issue. Dictionary definition of a threat is "if you do X I will do Y". The statement "if you don't leash the dog I will do something you might not like" fits that definition perfectly. So why would one have to have a "bigger issue" in order to use that dictionary definition?

League_Girl wrote:
Quote:
Edit: I'd also suggest that claiming\implying a person is "racist" due to their race (as was the case here) indicates a "racist" mentatlity in those making the claim. I'm certain that, were the roles reversed, no-one would have cared about the "racism" in a PoC female reporting a "white" man in similar circumstances...


People always love to claim reverse racism to justify racism and pretend it doesn't exist.

It would be justified because black people have always been oppressed do how are they going to know you aren't just an as*hole who is randomly threatening them?

Is it bigotry if an autistic person assumes they got singled out because they are autistic?

Look at The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Wolf had been called way too many times for centuries on the minority so of course they are justified in thinking they are dealing with racism just like we are justified to assume we are dealing with ableism.

I would still need to see sources where a black person has called the cops on a white person for no reason.

This argument goes both ways though:

Anti-black racism:

1a) Blacks are statistically more prone to crime

1b) Thats why blacks end up being stereotyped as criminals

1c) This is unfair because there are black "individuals" that are not criminals and its not their fault that a lot of other people of their race are.

Anti-white racism:

2a) Whites had a history of discrimination against blacks

2b) Thats why whites are stereotyped as being racist against blacks

2c) This is unfair because there are white "individuals" that are not racist against blacks and its not their fault that a lot of other people of their race are.

As a side note, its not true that whites are more racist than others. In fact, the opposite is far more likely to be the case. For example, in Mediteranian, Indian and Japanese cultures its very much the norm to stick to one's group. In western culture, on the other hand, assimilation is encouraged due to the modernization. I don't know how the western culture would compare to other cultures back in the 17-th century, but at least right now in the 21-st century the western culture is far more influenced by modernization than the others and, therefore, its one of the least racist ones.

I think the historical record of White racism is not due to actual racist *beliefs* but rather its due to the *power* to enforce them. If, for example, people in India decided to bring a bunch of European slaves, they wouldn't have power to do it since Europeans had better developed weapons. But when Americans decided to bring slaves from Africa, they easily could. That doesn't mean Americans are more racist than people in India. It just means they had more physical power (in a form of technology) to "enforce" their racism.



If you want to apply the dictionary in this, in that case, parents threaten their kids all the time. "If you don't clean your room, you will be grounded." Even authority uses threats, teachers, school principal, baby sitters, anyone in charge including managers and bosses and supervisors. Seriously, if all these cause panic in someone, that person does have a serious problem. My mom used my anxiety to her advantage by using extreme threats with me like "If you don't do this, I will spank you until your skin bleeds" and bam it got me to obey lol. Now I doubt she would have beaten me. It was just a empty threat. I just took things too damn seriously because I was so literal. A regular child wouldn't have taken it seriously and just think "yeah right." They test their limits to see if you are serious.


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13 Jul 2020, 5:00 pm

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
That's an interesting point. On the one hand there is a prejudice, irrespective of power and on the other hand there is a toxic combination of prejudice and power. These two phenomena should have their own separate words, since they both deserve a separate discussion. I thought racism refers to the former and you think it refers to the latter.

Prejudice is not the same as racism. You can be prejudiced against somebody and it may have nothing to do with race. For example you can have a prejudice against poor people or homeless people. Likewise a Chinese person may have prejudice against a white person but if a chinese person called a white person a racist name the white person will likely laugh because its not racist if the person does not feel inferior.

QFT wrote:
But in any case, if you say that in order to be racist one has to have power, then how can David Duke be racist if he has no power (no real chance to be elected any more)?


Duke invokes "White privilege"


Prejudice against the poor would be called classism because it holds power.


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13 Jul 2020, 5:06 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
I wonder how they would feel, if they were on the spectrum (being that we have some NT's here, too), and were filmed having a meltdown\anxiety related reaction to something and this was posted online, with the world judging them solely on a minute or so of footage of this meltdown\reaction, and no context\background being presented.


That argument doesn't work in Amy Cooper's favour because Amy Cooper is i) NT ii) has no underlying mental illness and iii) chose to deliberately invoke a specific meme to intimidate and subsequently punish Christian Cooper.

She had a senior role in a major investment firm with a 6 figure salary. Trying to invoke cognitive deficits in excusing her behaviour doesn't work, she could have taken her dog and walked away but she i) aggressively threatened Christian Cooper and ii) stayed in his view so he could hear making the 911 call which everyone knew was to punish him.

Do you think a major investment firm who would invest so heavily in paying her a six figure salary would not have defended her if she really was a victim??? what did they do? they sacked her. Why? because they watched the video and they knew it was only a matter of time before she would be charged.


Hypothetically let's say she does have an anxiety disorder, I don't think it would still be a valid defense because anxiety doesn't cause someone to be racist. If she is so anxious around black people and afraid of them, that is her internal racism. Unless her doctors and witnesses can find situations where she felt uncomfortable with white people too who were not poor, not trans or gay, not disabled, etc. to make it a valid defense to reduce her charges.


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13 Jul 2020, 5:15 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
That woman seems like a racist, little b!tch to me.


I mostly disagree with you but this time I actually agree with this.


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13 Jul 2020, 5:17 pm

QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I'll answer sequentially
i) No but
ii)wouldn't that have been her first defence when pleading her case to her employer? she's being playing the sympathy card and damsel in distress card but Amy Cooper has never played the mental illness card (yet)


I disagree with people that invoked possibility of autism or anxiety disorder to her defense since there is no evidence for it. However, this doesn't change the fact that she was scared because she was a woman, he was a man, she was alone, and he was saying he will do something that she won't like.

cyberdad wrote:
iii) The court of online public opinion works like this - if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...then it's a...(fill in the blank)


Well, it goes both ways. When you look at those videos you say "its obvious she was the one making a threat" while when I look at them I say "its obvious that she is threatened". And ironically we are looking at the same exact thing. You are looking at her strangling the dog to say she was aggressive. I am looking at her strangling the dog to say she was scared (nobody would scream and desperately hold the dog like that unless they are pushed on the edge with fear).

cyberdad wrote:
iv) It doesn't add up, she can't be feeling threatened but then aggressively approach him threatening him. A normal person would run away from the scene if they were really getting threatened by a tall black man.


If she walks away the dog would go to his bisquits.

cyberdad wrote:
v) I would remove myself from a situation where I felt both myself and my dog were under threat, I would not drag my dog and strangle it


The purpose of strangling the dog was to keep it from going to his bisquits. That was probably also the reason why she didn't just walk.



Why didn't she have a leash? She could have put the lash back on and tug at the leash to keep the dog from going towards him.


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13 Jul 2020, 5:22 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
That woman seems like a racist, little b!tch to me.

She appears to have people interaction problems.

“The only thing I’ll tell you is she never spoke directly to a person. She always spoke through her dog, and in a baby voice,” Mead told the outlet.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/central-p ... ed-report/

That's weird.

However, the "I'm going to tell them you're African American" may just seem racist, because maybe this is how she deflects people interactions.


Maybe she desperately hates interacting with people so much that she uses whatever means she can to avoid it.



It would still be racism. it doesn't matter what her intentions are. If I decided to call some disabled person the R word because they were pissing me off because they were being an as*hole or something so I decided to use a powerful word I know would hurt them, it would still make me an ableist. Same as if I decided to call a black person the N word, racism.

In that case her deciding to use his race against him was still racist.


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13 Jul 2020, 5:23 pm

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I'll answer sequentially
i) No but
ii)wouldn't that have been her first defence when pleading her case to her employer? she's being playing the sympathy card and damsel in distress card but Amy Cooper has never played the mental illness card (yet)


I disagree with people that invoked possibility of autism or anxiety disorder to her defense since there is no evidence for it. However, this doesn't change the fact that she was scared because she was a woman, he was a man, she was alone, and he was saying he will do something that she won't like.

cyberdad wrote:
iii) The court of online public opinion works like this - if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...then it's a...(fill in the blank)


Well, it goes both ways. When you look at those videos you say "its obvious she was the one making a threat" while when I look at them I say "its obvious that she is threatened". And ironically we are looking at the same exact thing. You are looking at her strangling the dog to say she was aggressive. I am looking at her strangling the dog to say she was scared (nobody would scream and desperately hold the dog like that unless they are pushed on the edge with fear).

cyberdad wrote:
iv) It doesn't add up, she can't be feeling threatened but then aggressively approach him threatening him. A normal person would run away from the scene if they were really getting threatened by a tall black man.


If she walks away the dog would go to his bisquits.

cyberdad wrote:
v) I would remove myself from a situation where I felt both myself and my dog were under threat, I would not drag my dog and strangle it


The purpose of strangling the dog was to keep it from going to his bisquits. That was probably also the reason why she didn't just walk.


3) If the dog was on leash and she was alone then why didn't she leave instead of staying there?


People argued flight or fight response already in this thread.


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13 Jul 2020, 5:27 pm

QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
1) Anxiety can be a state of mind rather than a diagnosable trait. Amy Cooper apologised but tried to use state anxiety as a reason for her over reaction.


She "did" have anxiety as a "state of mind at the moment" but she didn't have "anxiety disorder".

Her "state of mind" was triggered by her being a female alone with much bigger male who said he will do something she won't like. Any other female in this situation would be in a "state of anxiety" too.

cyberdad wrote:
However she seemed in calm control when making her fake phone call.


On these videos she did *not* look calm at all. She was screaming, frantically trying to hold her dog. That looks rather anxious to me.

cyberdad wrote:
2) The dog was on leash so how could it eat the biscuits?


The dog was "not" on the leash. I thought that was the entire context of the whole encounter.

cyberdad wrote:
3) If the dog was on leash and she was alone then why didn't she leave instead of staying there?


Because the dog was not on the leash.


I notice how it's socially acceptable for women to fear men but if men feared women, they are always called a misogynist and are labeled as hating women and are called a Red Pill.

I understand the double standard so I see it as a privilege that I do not fear men and don't feel threatened by them. Women don't need to be assaulted or raped to fear men, they still fear them nonetheless. It's a female privilege to fear men without being labeled as having misandry or accused of hating men by society.


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13 Jul 2020, 5:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
No, it is her lawyer (Robert Barnes) whose nephew has Autism, which was one of the reasons for him taking the case.

He does weekly (I believe) "vlawgs" with Viva Frei, so as the case goes forward he'll likely be able to speak more about the case from the defence point of view (and being that the prosecution need to provide all related materials to him, probably summarizing the prosecution case regarding the issue as well). I have found both Robert and Viva quite interesting to listen to regarding prominant legal matters in the USA and Canada.


Where does it suggest Amy Cooper may be autistic?


Where did I ever suggest or indicate that she was? Please read what has been typed, rather than jumping to incorrect conclusions.


I am trying to work out what Robert Barne's nephew being diagnosed with autism is relevant to mention with why he took on Amy Cooper's case (that seems to be your assertion there is a connection)?



How it could be relevant, maybe he thinks she has autistic traits? Maybe he thinks her issue should be valid and people shouldn't have a diagnoses for their issues to be valid?

Lawyers jobs are to try and reduce their sentence or have them get the least sentence.


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cyberdad
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13 Jul 2020, 6:53 pm

League_Girl wrote:
People argued flight or fight response already in this thread.


But you can't have it both ways. If she has an underlying anxiety disorder (yet to be revealed?) then her response would be "flight" or shut down. If she specifically had a panic disorder which made her do irrational things when triggered then it would be clear from the video.

What I saw is somebody who was in neither fight or flight mode. She seemed to be in control and quite calculating. Remember she held a senior executive role in a major firm and manages many people, would debate/tackle other senior executives/ high powered clients and is able to take charge in a high pressure role. I have (in the past) worked with such people and particularly being female she would have to be highly resilient to high pressure.

I do not think it would be possible for somebody in this position to survive in such a high powered role in a major firm in one of the most important centres in the global economy to suddenly become a snowflake who easily becomes irrational (as robot and brictoria are asserting) when put in a rather neutral position with virtually no consequence that a sensible person in her position would walk away from.

I read an interesting take on her character from a fraud analyst who wrote that she is highly manipulative and knew what she was doing. He referred to her indignation that she was caught doing the wrong thing and wanted to "punish".

It's also not the first time she made a false report, she did it to a work colleague in 2015.