Do you agree with bending your knee to show contrition?
Bradleigh
Veteran
Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
08 Jun 2020, 3:12 pm
Magna wrote:
Shouldn't white people show solidarity and empathy for non-white disadvantaged by white privilege?
Shouldn't the rich show solidarity and empathy for poor people disadvantaged by rich privilege?
Shouldn't men show solidarity and empathy for women disadvantaged by male privilege?
Shouldn't able bodied people show solidarity and empathy for the disabled?
Shouldn't NTs show solidarity and empathy for NDs?
Shouldn't straight people show solidarity and empathy for gay people?
Shouldn't people with an average or above average IQ show solidarity and empathy for people with lower IQ?
Shouldn't the rich show solidarity and empathy for poor people disadvantaged by rich privilege?
Shouldn't men show solidarity and empathy for women disadvantaged by male privilege?
Shouldn't able bodied people show solidarity and empathy for the disabled?
Shouldn't NTs show solidarity and empathy for NDs?
Shouldn't straight people show solidarity and empathy for gay people?
Shouldn't people with an average or above average IQ show solidarity and empathy for people with lower IQ?
Welcome to socialism.
_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall
08 Jun 2020, 3:18 pm
Bradleigh wrote:
Magna wrote:
Shouldn't white people show solidarity and empathy for non-white disadvantaged by white privilege?
Shouldn't the rich show solidarity and empathy for poor people disadvantaged by rich privilege?
Shouldn't men show solidarity and empathy for women disadvantaged by male privilege?
Shouldn't able bodied people show solidarity and empathy for the disabled?
Shouldn't NTs show solidarity and empathy for NDs?
Shouldn't straight people show solidarity and empathy for gay people?
Shouldn't people with an average or above average IQ show solidarity and empathy for people with lower IQ?
Shouldn't the rich show solidarity and empathy for poor people disadvantaged by rich privilege?
Shouldn't men show solidarity and empathy for women disadvantaged by male privilege?
Shouldn't able bodied people show solidarity and empathy for the disabled?
Shouldn't NTs show solidarity and empathy for NDs?
Shouldn't straight people show solidarity and empathy for gay people?
Shouldn't people with an average or above average IQ show solidarity and empathy for people with lower IQ?
Welcome to socialism.
That doesn't answer my question: Does "white privilege" top the other "privileges" you mention?
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,466
Location: Right over your left shoulder
08 Jun 2020, 3:29 pm
Mikah wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
As a minority of any sort people are more likely to assume things about you. For example in an autistic context NT’s might assume autistics use body language the way they do or need socialization in the way they do. The minority is more likely to have to do many more steps to accomplish the same thing a member of the majority does.
So when whites become a minority in the U.S. white privilege will no longer be a problem? It's not too far off actually, maybe we could just wait this problem out.
It will likely contribute to diminishing it, but it wouldn't inherently erase it. I mean, South Africa and Rhodesia had white minorities who most certainly had white privilege.
Further, you could point to it in Latin American countries with few people who meet Anglo-American definitions of 'white', but meet their own local definitions; in those societies often racial and class terms are mixed up which further complicates/tangles up the two notions.
You could even (certainly historically, not so sure about now) point to Liberia as demonstrating even though it was basically by proxy; westernized black American colonials established themselves as a ruling elite over peoples who would be considered of the same race, but they used their contact with Anglo civilization to justify their sense of superiority.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
08 Jun 2020, 3:38 pm
Bradleigh wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Well being a male myself,I have never really thought of male privilege.I have no problem with legit civil rights for all people,I fully support equal rights for all but this whole "privilege" incantation buzzing around society,seems rather phony.And non constructive to real civil rights advancements,but I would be happy to see Derek Chauvin in a cell for decades to come and should have been prosecuted in the past.Put more crooked cops in jail but respect the good cops.
And yet Derek Chauvin is mostly a symptom of the real problem, he is not just some abolition of unique racism, if many of the testimonies of people like him are to be believed. More often than not the majoroty of the police stick up for each other instead of speak out against the bad. Just in the ladt few days a 75 year old man was unnecessarily assaulted by an officer, beimg pushed to the ground and ended up in critical condition, and after the offending officer was disciplined the whole unit quit in protest of that decision.
If what you are hearing about white privilege is phony and without any constructive efforts of civil rights advancement, then where are you hearing this from, what do you think does nothing, and what do you think could maybe be done instead?
_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,466
Location: Right over your left shoulder
08 Jun 2020, 3:50 pm
vermontsavant wrote:
We need to send more Derek Chauvin's to prison and the justice system needs to stop sending so many black men to prison,but philosophical memes like "white privilege" won't accomplish this.It will only accomplish the opposite.
People who fail to understand the concept on here often advance this argument, but their opinion doesn't amount to an argument to support that opinion.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
08 Jun 2020, 3:53 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Mikah wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
As a minority of any sort people are more likely to assume things about you. For example in an autistic context NT’s might assume autistics use body language the way they do or need socialization in the way they do. The minority is more likely to have to do many more steps to accomplish the same thing a member of the majority does.
So when whites become a minority in the U.S. white privilege will no longer be a problem? It's not too far off actually, maybe we could just wait this problem out.
It will likely contribute to diminishing it, but it wouldn't inherently erase it. I mean, South Africa and Rhodesia had white minorities who most certainly had white privilege.
Further, you could point to it in Latin American countries with few people who meet Anglo-American definitions of 'white', but meet their own local definitions; in those societies often racial and class terms are mixed up which further complicates/tangles up the two notions.
You could even (certainly historically, not so sure about now) point to Liberia as demonstrating even though it was basically by proxy; westernized black American colonials established themselves as a ruling elite over peoples who would be considered of the same race, but they used their contact with Anglo civilization to justify their sense of superiority.
You're presuming that whites would still have positions of power, status and own the majority of property in the U.S. even if they're actually in the minority by mentioning South Africa as an example. That may or may not be the case. I think Mikah's point is if whites become a minority not only in actual number, but also in influence, will "white privilege" still be a thing. I think your opinion is that yes, it always will and as such whites will never have a time in the future where they can claim disadvantaged status.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,419
Location: Long Island, New York
08 Jun 2020, 4:03 pm
Mikah wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
As a minority of any sort people are more likely to assume things about you. For example in an autistic context NT’s might assume autistics use body language the way they do or need socialization in the way they do. The minority is more likely to have to do many more steps to accomplish the same thing a member of the majority does.
So when whites become a minority in the U.S. white privilege will no longer be a problem? It's not too far off actually, maybe we could just wait this problem out.
When whites are a minority it will be more likely they will be at a disadvantage. But they will probably be guilt-tripped for "white privilege" anyways.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,466
Location: Right over your left shoulder
08 Jun 2020, 4:27 pm
Magna wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mikah wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
As a minority of any sort people are more likely to assume things about you. For example in an autistic context NT’s might assume autistics use body language the way they do or need socialization in the way they do. The minority is more likely to have to do many more steps to accomplish the same thing a member of the majority does.
So when whites become a minority in the U.S. white privilege will no longer be a problem? It's not too far off actually, maybe we could just wait this problem out.
It will likely contribute to diminishing it, but it wouldn't inherently erase it. I mean, South Africa and Rhodesia had white minorities who most certainly had white privilege.
Further, you could point to it in Latin American countries with few people who meet Anglo-American definitions of 'white', but meet their own local definitions; in those societies often racial and class terms are mixed up which further complicates/tangles up the two notions.
You could even (certainly historically, not so sure about now) point to Liberia as demonstrating even though it was basically by proxy; westernized black American colonials established themselves as a ruling elite over peoples who would be considered of the same race, but they used their contact with Anglo civilization to justify their sense of superiority.
You're presuming that whites would still have positions of power, status and own the majority of property in the U.S. even if they're actually in the minority by mentioning South Africa as an example. That may or may not be the case. I think Mikah's point is if whites become a minority not only in actual number, but also in influence, will "white privilege" still be a thing. I think your opinion is that yes, it always will and as such whites will never have a time in the future where they can claim disadvantaged status.
I was referring to apartheid era South Africa, hence why it was mentioned along side a nation that no longer exists. In this era it's certainly diminishing even if it still exists.
As a hypothetical it's certainly possible that white privilege could diminish to the point as to be non-existent, but thanks for trying to speak for me.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
08 Jun 2020, 4:35 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Magna wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mikah wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
As a minority of any sort people are more likely to assume things about you. For example in an autistic context NT’s might assume autistics use body language the way they do or need socialization in the way they do. The minority is more likely to have to do many more steps to accomplish the same thing a member of the majority does.
So when whites become a minority in the U.S. white privilege will no longer be a problem? It's not too far off actually, maybe we could just wait this problem out.
It will likely contribute to diminishing it, but it wouldn't inherently erase it. I mean, South Africa and Rhodesia had white minorities who most certainly had white privilege.
Further, you could point to it in Latin American countries with few people who meet Anglo-American definitions of 'white', but meet their own local definitions; in those societies often racial and class terms are mixed up which further complicates/tangles up the two notions.
You could even (certainly historically, not so sure about now) point to Liberia as demonstrating even though it was basically by proxy; westernized black American colonials established themselves as a ruling elite over peoples who would be considered of the same race, but they used their contact with Anglo civilization to justify their sense of superiority.
You're presuming that whites would still have positions of power, status and own the majority of property in the U.S. even if they're actually in the minority by mentioning South Africa as an example. That may or may not be the case. I think Mikah's point is if whites become a minority not only in actual number, but also in influence, will "white privilege" still be a thing. I think your opinion is that yes, it always will and as such whites will never have a time in the future where they can claim disadvantaged status.
I was referring to apartheid era South Africa, hence why it was mentioned along side a nation that no longer exists. In this era it's certainly diminishing even if it still exists.
As a hypothetical it's certainly possible that white privilege could diminish to the point as to be non-existent, but thanks for trying to speak for me.
Hmmm.....my intent was not to speak for you. Speaking for you would be saying: "funeralxempire believes...", "funeralxempire would say...", etc.
Thanks for clarifying.
08 Jun 2020, 4:51 pm
"A More Perfect Union";
Work On That/This For It is
True Meek Do Inherit the Earth;
It's All About Balance; Supports of Solidarity;
Like Bending One's Knee in Support as Just A Symbol
For Those Who Are Choked by Uncaring Criminal System Knees;
Yes, Just
THAT A
SHoW
of Solidarity;
A Show of Solidarity;
For Even Lionesses At
Least Stand Tall This Way;
Lions Not So Much For They
See Life More as a Killing Way;
But We Are Humans; And Really Not
Territorial Wild Cats at core; Unless the
Empathy of Love For All Human Blood as Love Is Gardened
Out As Killing Nature of Basic Reptile Brain Snake Survival.
We Can And Will
Be More Than That
And IN Deed Out of
Trenches of Fights in
Life For Survival We aRe;
But i will Tell Y'all This; if all The
Cops and All the Nurses Who Do Great
Jobs of Protecting and Serving Decide to Say
F it and Quit; in Insanely Large Populations of
Humans only evolved to Live peacefully in Small
And Naked Villages in Foraging For Subsistence and
Dancing As Love And Song in DrumBeats of Thriving Midnight
Campfire Light; Chaos Will Then Reign Over Health, Safety, And Service
to Protect the Well Being of Humanity Living in Sardine Cans and 6 inch Screens now;
As Always
'Be Careful
Who and What We
Wish for"; But 'i am not
going to be the one to Fix this';
For Minions Will Have an Upper
Hand As Long As Freedom's Justice For All Does not
Bond in Something Like a Peaceful Protest.. hmm..
Yes; this
Protest
is Trump's
Ticket Out
(He's Fired)
This Protest
is Freedom's Justice Church Realized for Now;
It's Obvious; even Empirical Data From
Widespread collected Polls Verily Show
this Truth in Light
Now For Real.
Trump Finally
Finds Some Ways
To 'Shoot Himself in the
Foot On 5th Avenue'; Better
Yet Murphy's Law becomes His fate too...
Sh8t Happens; Take Care of The First Responders too or die even more....
Yes, Put the Bad Cops in Prison; And Protest Peacefully Until Justice in Freedom of A More Perfect Union comes...
And if You Want to Soothe the Soul of People's With Knees on Necks; do whatever you Will to make Solidarity Real.
But of course
If You don't
Understand;
Yes, Feel Now
What a Soul
REAL Is and the
Need for This
FlesH and Blood Real;
Obviously, For Now You Just
Don't Know what 'they' are doing...
on Bended knee at all... hmm.. Not
Hard for some of us to miss 'the Love'....
And Yes This is the Root of Most Human Problems...
Love
Or
Not
For ALL;
Some Folks
Just Never Get
On 'the Love Boat'
And Or Leave And Never Come back...
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
Bradleigh
Veteran
Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
08 Jun 2020, 8:09 pm
Magna wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Magna wrote:
Shouldn't white people show solidarity and empathy for non-white disadvantaged by white privilege?
Shouldn't the rich show solidarity and empathy for poor people disadvantaged by rich privilege?
Shouldn't men show solidarity and empathy for women disadvantaged by male privilege?
Shouldn't able bodied people show solidarity and empathy for the disabled?
Shouldn't NTs show solidarity and empathy for NDs?
Shouldn't straight people show solidarity and empathy for gay people?
Shouldn't people with an average or above average IQ show solidarity and empathy for people with lower IQ?
Shouldn't the rich show solidarity and empathy for poor people disadvantaged by rich privilege?
Shouldn't men show solidarity and empathy for women disadvantaged by male privilege?
Shouldn't able bodied people show solidarity and empathy for the disabled?
Shouldn't NTs show solidarity and empathy for NDs?
Shouldn't straight people show solidarity and empathy for gay people?
Shouldn't people with an average or above average IQ show solidarity and empathy for people with lower IQ?
Welcome to socialism.
That doesn't answer my question: Does "white privilege" top the other "privileges" you mention?
My answer is that I personally think all of them are important, that those in a minority of people, power, education and potential all be listened to and not be killed just for being a minority. It is not a question of which one is at the top, that is just a distraction from supporting any one cause, support them all and show solidarity.
Just don't do something silly like say All Lives Matter in response to Black Lives Matter. Men's Rights in response to feminism. Or Straight Pride in response to Gay Pride. Because people are not actually calling for unity when they do that, they might think that they are but instead they are refusing that there is any privilege at all.
_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall
08 Jun 2020, 10:09 pm
Bradleigh wrote:
Magna wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Magna wrote:
Shouldn't white people show solidarity and empathy for non-white disadvantaged by white privilege?
Shouldn't the rich show solidarity and empathy for poor people disadvantaged by rich privilege?
Shouldn't men show solidarity and empathy for women disadvantaged by male privilege?
Shouldn't able bodied people show solidarity and empathy for the disabled?
Shouldn't NTs show solidarity and empathy for NDs?
Shouldn't straight people show solidarity and empathy for gay people?
Shouldn't people with an average or above average IQ show solidarity and empathy for people with lower IQ?
Shouldn't the rich show solidarity and empathy for poor people disadvantaged by rich privilege?
Shouldn't men show solidarity and empathy for women disadvantaged by male privilege?
Shouldn't able bodied people show solidarity and empathy for the disabled?
Shouldn't NTs show solidarity and empathy for NDs?
Shouldn't straight people show solidarity and empathy for gay people?
Shouldn't people with an average or above average IQ show solidarity and empathy for people with lower IQ?
Welcome to socialism.
That doesn't answer my question: Does "white privilege" top the other "privileges" you mention?
My answer is that I personally think all of them are important, that those in a minority of people, power, education and potential all be listened to and not be killed just for being a minority. It is not a question of which one is at the top, that is just a distraction from supporting any one cause, support them all and show solidarity.
Just don't do something silly like say All Lives Matter in response to Black Lives Matter. Men's Rights in response to feminism. Or Straight Pride in response to Gay Pride. Because people are not actually calling for unity when they do that, they might think that they are but instead they are refusing that there is any privilege at all.
In your first paragraph you state that you think all of the disadvantaged people/groups you illustrated matter. I agree with you. I also agree people should support them all and show solidarity.
In your second paragraph you school and scold people not to say "All Lives Matter" (inclusive) but go on to give two very different or oppositional examples: male/female, straight/gay. If this were one of those analogy questions on a test would it go like this? "male is to female as straight is to gay as black is to all". No.
It's interesting to me when you say that a person might think that they are calling for unity but they're actually not thinking that. Let's unpack that. So a person might genuinely and completely be thinking that unity among all people is the ideal to strive for and achieve but you are able to tell them that they're not actually thinking of unity (even though they are) and instead their misguided thoughts of unity for all people are actually thoughts, completely unbeknownst to them, of something racist. Wow.
Bradleigh
Veteran
Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
08 Jun 2020, 10:25 pm
Magna wrote:
In your first paragraph you state that you think all of the disadvantaged people/groups you illustrated matter. I agree with you. I also agree people should support them all and show solidarity.
In your second paragraph you school and scold people not to say "All Lives Matter" (inclusive) but go on to give two very different or oppositional examples: male/female, straight/gay. If this were one of those analogy questions on a test would it go like this? "male is to female as straight is to gay as black is to all". No.
It's interesting to me when you say that a person might think that they are calling for unity but they're actually not thinking that. Let's unpack that. So a person might genuinely and completely be thinking that unity among all people is the ideal to strive for and achieve but you are able to tell them that they're not actually thinking of unity (even though they are) and instead their misguided thoughts of unity for all people are actually thoughts, completely unbeknownst to them, of something racist. Wow.
In your second paragraph you school and scold people not to say "All Lives Matter" (inclusive) but go on to give two very different or oppositional examples: male/female, straight/gay. If this were one of those analogy questions on a test would it go like this? "male is to female as straight is to gay as black is to all". No.
It's interesting to me when you say that a person might think that they are calling for unity but they're actually not thinking that. Let's unpack that. So a person might genuinely and completely be thinking that unity among all people is the ideal to strive for and achieve but you are able to tell them that they're not actually thinking of unity (even though they are) and instead their misguided thoughts of unity for all people are actually thoughts, completely unbeknownst to them, of something racist. Wow.
What? No! My examples are that saying "all lives matter", "straight pride" and "men's rights" are that they are distracting talking points that are designed to take away from movements to help people that are oppressed by society. Black Lives Matter implies that they matter too in a world where all lives are supposed to matter. Gay pride means that homosexual people can be proud for who they are and love too, in a world that says love should be treated as beautiful but straights are considered the normal. And feminism is not aiming to have women lord over men, but have them treated equal, even that they can be masculine as men and society also allowed to be more feminine.
I am sure that it is possible to find bad actors in those movements that are not really productive for equality, but my point is that ones response to help pull up a minority group is to make up one for everyone else, then that is a problem. It is like if there was a day dedicated for people who are confined to wheel chairs to shine a light on how they live, and in response people decided to make an equal day dedicated to people who can walk perfectly normal.
_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall
08 Jun 2020, 11:23 pm
Magna wrote:
It's interesting to me when you say that a person might think that they are calling for unity but they're actually not thinking that. Let's unpack that. So a person might genuinely and completely be thinking that unity among all people is the ideal to strive for and achieve but you are able to tell them that they're not actually thinking of unity (even though they are) and instead their misguided thoughts of unity for all people are actually thoughts, completely unbeknownst to them, of something racist. Wow.
let's say there are five people at a table, four of them are eating food, except for john who hasn't got any food, and he is starving.
"black lives matter" is like saying "john needs food".
"all lives matter" is like saying "everyone needs food", which is obviously true...anyone with two brain cells can surmise that. but it doesn't serve much of a purpose besides distracting from the fact that JOHN STILL DOESN'T HAVE ANY DAMN FOOD AND WE NEED TO FOCUS ON HIM
_________________
הייתי צוללת עכשיו למים
הכי, הכי עמוקים
לא לשמוע כלום
לא לדעת כלום
וזה הכל אהובי, זה הכל.
08 Jun 2020, 11:43 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Once you resort to calling people racists, you've lost the debate. In other words, leave identity politics behind if you wish to have an intelligent discussion.
I'm sorry, are we no longer allowed to call a spade a spade? If you have to resort to pretending away racism you don't have an argument to make.
OK,
I am going to call it out:
1. Are you saying I am a racist?
2. Are you saying what I am saying is racist?
| Similar Topics | |
|---|---|
| Is G4 MLP a baby show? |
Yesterday, 1:40 pm |
| What is your all-time favorite TV show? |
12 Apr 2024, 11:33 am |
| Everything’s Gonna Be OK actors stage show |
05 Feb 2024, 10:14 pm |
| SCOTUS upholds Texas A&M drag show ban |
16 Mar 2024, 7:46 am |
